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Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: PeterB
Date: February 17, 2024 09:58PM
[abcnews.go.com]

... one wonders if, had the DA been a white male, who had hired a white female special prosecutor with whom he was having a relationship (and all the other factors being otherwise the same), would he come under the same level of expectations and scrutiny? Somehow, I don't think so...




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Re: Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 17, 2024 10:00PM
We're talking Trumpers.
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Re: Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: PeterB
Date: February 17, 2024 10:02PM
Quote
vision63
We're talking Trumpers.

Of course. But that just adds fuel to the fire of unfairness of it.




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Re: Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 17, 2024 10:03PM
Quote
PeterB
Quote
vision63
We're talking Trumpers.

Of course. But that just adds fuel to the fire of unfairness of it.

You may be right.
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Re: Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: February 18, 2024 06:46AM
Quote
PeterB
[abcnews.go.com]

... one wonders if, had the DA been a white male, who had hired a white female special prosecutor with whom he was having a relationship (and all the other factors being otherwise the same), would he come under the same level of expectations and scrutiny? Somehow, I don't think so...


I think he absolutely would if the defendant he was going after was a powerful former POTUS, and his attorneys found out about the relationship.

This is about getting out of trouble, and well-resourced defendents do anything they can to get out of trouble.

There are multiple layers going on in this Fani Willis hearing...the incredible hypocrisy that people like Clarence Thomas, Ginny Thomas, Alito and Brett Kavanaugh are sitting pretty and not under investigation for conflict of interest. That's one thing.

It is sickening.

I think the judge in this hearing is fair and has no bias against Willis, that is what is said of him in the Atlanta legal community.

He has shown displeasure with all sides in this thing. The behavior has been pretty wild and while I understand Willis' disgust with this, I'm not sure she helped herself with all of her testimony.

I wish this were not happening. I wish she had kept her personal and professional lives separate as the ethics of her profession demand.

Because we need Donald Trump and the people who helped him try to steal an election held accountable.

We need to get back on track. This derailment was unnecessary.
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Re: Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: August West
Date: February 18, 2024 07:26AM
LD took the words right out of my mouth. This is not about mistreating the DA, it's about making as much smoke as possible to keep eyes off the real issue.

That being said, PeterB is absolutely on point to ask the question. Outside the creating smoke issue, the DA absolutely will be treated and perceived differently because:

Racism

Sexism



“There comes a point where we need to stop just pulling people out of the river. We need to go upstream and find out why they’re falling in."

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Re: Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: February 18, 2024 07:27AM
Quote
PeterB
[abcnews.go.com]

... one wonders if, had the DA been a white male, who had hired a white female special prosecutor with whom he was having a relationship (and all the other factors being otherwise the same), would he come under the same level of expectations and scrutiny? Somehow, I don't think so...

  • Called to testify in the divorce hearing of the lead prosecutor he appointed and is having an intimate relationship with
  • Records showing that same lead prosecutor and their firm was paid hundreds of thousands of dollars more in fees than other prosecutors involved in the case
  • Records showing that the DA and lead prosecutor went on multiple personal vacations together, records showing the lead prosecutor paid for
  • The DA’s explanation being that he paid back some of the funds used, thousands of dollars, but it was in cash, and so there is no record of it

Yes, Trump’s team would likely have chewed on the same bone. And the circumstantial evidence still too salacious for the press to not pick up. Particularly if the DA in question made similar initial missteps (eg making statements alluding to being persecuted because ‘men are sometimes unfairly under a microscope in the ‘me too’ era’).

Smoke is still smoke, and flames would be attempted to be fanned. And crowds still gawk at a “fire”, even if it turns out to be basically smoke and mirrors.



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Re: Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: February 18, 2024 07:32AM
Quote
August West
LD took the words right out of my mouth. This is not about mistreating the DA, it's about making as much smoke as possible to keep eyes off the real issue.

That being said, PeterB is absolutely on point to ask the question. Outside the creating smoke issue, the DA absolutely will be treated and perceived differently because:

Racism

Sexism


Oh yes, she will be treated differently.
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Re: Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: February 18, 2024 08:16AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
August West
LD took the words right out of my mouth. This is not about mistreating the DA, it's about making as much smoke as possible to keep eyes off the real issue.

That being said, PeterB is absolutely on point to ask the question. Outside the creating smoke issue, the DA absolutely will be treated and perceived differently because:

Racism

Sexism


Oh yes, she will be treated differently.

That's just two-for for trump's "defense". They will stop at nothing to destroy any D.A. going against him. Anything to divert attention off the facts of the actual case.

If the D.A. had been a black man, race would have been part of their subterfuge.

If the D.A. had been a white woman, sex would have been part of their subterfuge.
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Re: Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: PeterB
Date: February 18, 2024 08:26AM
I don't disagree at this point that she has made some incredible blunders.

The question/problem is, nobody is perfect. When you dig, you will always find something. Dump's legal team found something, which they are now exploiting. But the degree to which they are exploiting this is-- I feel-- at least partly ground in racism and sexism. I still can't see this having gone as far as it has, were it to have been a white male DA and white female special prosecutor. Lastly, despite everything that has come out so far, I'm still not seeing a conflict of interest that rises to the level to require her to be removed as the lead on the case... as I think pdq has pointed out, it would be different if she had had a relationship with one of the members of the defense team.

... and yes, LD is correct to point out the absolute hypocrisy of this situation, particularly as regards to Clarence and Ginny Thomas.




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Re: Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: Rolando
Date: February 18, 2024 11:47AM
If you know you're gonna be under the microscope, you better act like you're under the microscope. Nevermind that as a black person, you gotta be twice as good to be seen as almost equal!



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Re: Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: PeterB
Date: February 18, 2024 12:05PM
Quote
Rolando
If you know you're gonna be under the microscope, you better act like you're under the microscope. Nevermind that as a black person, you gotta be twice as good to be seen as almost equal!

Having been myself under the microscope a number of times, I can tell you that -- no matter how much you prepare -- if someone is determined to find something on you, believe me, they will. Even if they have to dredge up stuff that's really pretty irrelevant, as in this case. Yes, she made some very bad choices. But the only relevant question is whether it really represents a conflict of interest, as alleged by the Dump crew.




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Re: Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: $tevie
Date: February 18, 2024 01:07PM
I can't speak for how it was handled, but it was necessary for the judge to hold an investigation into the situation. You absolutely couldn't pretend it didn't happen without creating eternal baggage for the trial and its outcome. Deal with it and get it out of the way, even if we don't like it.



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Re: Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: sekker
Date: February 18, 2024 03:58PM
Quote
$tevie
I can't speak for how it was handled, but it was necessary for the judge to hold an investigation into the situation. You absolutely couldn't pretend it didn't happen without creating eternal baggage for the trial and its outcome. Deal with it and get it out of the way, even if we don't like it.

This.

And it's just the reality that women professionals are largely judged more harshly in our society than their male counterparts.

And this tends to be asymmetric as well - with ... drum roll... the women in our society who judge the women professionals the most harshly.

I have said it here, whoever took on the task of prosecuting a former POTUS had knowledge up-front that this was a history-making activity. Male or female, tall or short, green or purple - they should have skipped the sexual antics with their co-workers. Period. It was only going to make their job harder, even if it was just romance.
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Re: Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: Numo
Date: February 18, 2024 05:10PM
While it’s fair to question whether Willis is being treated equitably in her current trial, to me it’s kind of beside the point at this juncture. Her wound was self-inflicted, committed ahead of a trial that could determine the fate of our Republic. Her lack of foresight in this matter makes me question her ability to successfully plan for and direct the prosecution of Trump in Georgia. Willis may have also inadvertently helped to push the trial settlement date beyond the election with the possibility of it being disposed if Trump wins. I pray that I’m wrong about all of this.
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Re: Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 18, 2024 05:21PM
Quote
Numo
While it’s fair to question whether Willis is being treated equitably in her current trial, to me it’s kind of beside the point at this juncture. Her wound was self-inflicted, committed ahead of a trial that could determine the fate of our Republic. Her lack of foresight in this matter makes me question her ability to successfully plan for and direct the prosecution of Trump in Georgia. Willis may have also inadvertently helped to push the trial settlement date beyond the election with the possibility of it being disposed if Trump wins. I pray that I’m wrong about all of this.

She very well could not have existed at all and there be no charges against Trump and his criminal cohorts in Fulton County. I prayed hoping we wouldn't push that first domino back in 2015. I only bring it up because some people act like they weren't warned. Here we are, trying to stop him again. You just have to keep pushing.

If this was a real battlefield and your platoon leader went down, you'd keep fighting.
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Re: Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: pdq
Date: February 18, 2024 05:32PM
Quote
Numo
While it’s fair to question whether Willis is being treated equitably in her current trial, to me it’s kind of beside the point at this juncture. Her wound was self-inflicted, committed ahead of a trial that could determine the fate of our Republic. Her lack of foresight in this matter makes me question her ability to successfully plan for and direct the prosecution of Trump in Georgia. Willis may have also inadvertently helped to push the trial settlement date beyond the election with the possibility of it being disposed if Trump wins. I pray that I’m wrong about all of this.

You are wrong, though it’s a frequent misunderstanding. It’s a state case; Trump could not pardon himself in this case. Even if it was possible to pardon oneself for federal crimes (and I have no doubt he would try if elected), he can’t pardon state crimes. So the case can go on, even after the election, no matter the outcome of that.
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Re: Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: PeterB
Date: February 18, 2024 06:31PM
You can always play "what-if" games.

What if NOBODY had been willing to prosecute this case, for fear that Dump, er, the former President, would tear you limb from limb, investigate your personal life, threaten (even if indirectly) your friends and family, etc. Someone had to take this case, and anyone taking it would have had baggage of one sort or another. As she's pointed out, she's not the one on trial here; and I have yet to see anything that amounts to a serious conflict of interest, or at least one to justify removing her as the lead prosecutor. And I reject the idea that this was self-inflicted; it's pretty obvious who is really inflicting the damage. Everyone is entitled to a personal life, so long as it doesn't compromise their professional integrity -- we'll see if that's the case here.




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Re: Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: Numo
Date: February 19, 2024 01:42PM
Quote
PeterB
You can always play "what-if" games.

What if NOBODY had been willing to prosecute this case, for fear that Dump, er, the former President, would tear you limb from limb, investigate your personal life, threaten (even if indirectly) your friends and family, etc. Someone had to take this case, and anyone taking it would have had baggage of one sort or another. As she's pointed out, she's not the one on trial here; and I have yet to see anything that amounts to a serious conflict of interest, or at least one to justify removing her as the lead prosecutor. And I reject the idea that this was self-inflicted; it's pretty obvious who is really inflicting the damage. Everyone is entitled to a personal life, so long as it doesn't compromise their professional integrity -- we'll see if that's the case here.

It’s true that Willis showed exemplary courage by taking this case on, especially after 1 or 2 others (I think) turned it down. So I am grateful for her efforts. I have no doubt that Trump will try to exact revenge upon those who have worked against him if he’s re-elected. He’s mean to the bone.
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Re: Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: pdq
Date: February 19, 2024 03:10PM
Quote
Numo

It’s true that Willis showed exemplary courage by taking this case on, especially after 1 or 2 others (I think) turned it down. So I am grateful for her efforts. I have no doubt that Trump will try to exact revenge upon those who have worked against him if he’s re-elected. He’s mean to the bone.

Nathan Wade was the one that took a job (lead special prosecutor) after two or more declined. But I completely agree that Willis showed exemplary courage by pursuing this case.

This case was unprecedented, as were the actions of Trump and co-conspirators. Such actions actually happened in a number of states, of course; but only one DA stood up and tried to hold those conspiring to overturn a presidential election to account.

That took guts.
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Re: Another perspective on the Fani Willis situation
Posted by: pdq
Date: February 20, 2024 11:12AM
The story out now is that Wade and Willis bought two bottles of expensive wine when they went to wine country.

Ooh la la. Luxurious!

But Willis paid. In cash.

Convenient, huh?

But the wine steward remembered what happened.
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