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so Democracy produces freedom, yes?
Posted by: incognegro
Date: January 26, 2006 08:59AM
[news.bbc.co.uk]

Hamas official Mushir al-Masri warned that Hamas would not hold peace talks with Israel.

"Negotiations with Israel is not on our agenda," he said.
"Recognising Israel is not on the agenda either now."

The outcome of the Palestinian election is the biggest challenge facing Mr Olmert since he took over from Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, who remains in a coma following a massive stroke on 4 January.

***

just like in the USA, the majority has spoken, and Hamas is the winner. do we see a parallel with the Republican winners?
(ie, lack of willingness to negotiate)



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Re: so Democracy produces freedom, yes?
Posted by: Furiously Stylish
Date: January 26, 2006 09:27AM
Firstly, just to dispel rumors, uh, what we got right here is a representative republic, in its nature. I'm saying that not because you're confused, but because I notice a lot of confusion in general.

I'm not quite getting the connection here, though. Are you suggesting that Democrats in the federal legislature don't somehow form part of the process of government? Or are you suggesting that we need some sort of a coalition process so that we can have an all-hands-on government and steer about in lazy circles the way European government tends to?
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Re: so Democracy produces freedom, yes?
Posted by: rz
Date: January 26, 2006 09:54AM
Um, isn't the fact that you say "Recognizing Israel is not on the agenda"... isn't that kinda recognizing them?

yeah, I know. They mean "Recognizing" as "being legitimate".
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Re: so Democracy produces freedom, yes?
Posted by: -jeffB
Date: January 26, 2006 10:32AM
Furiously Stylish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or are you suggesting that we need
> some sort of a coalition process so that we can
> have an all-hands-on government and steer about in
> lazy circles the way European government tends to?

Are you suggesting that a powerless, ineffective government is a bad thing?
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Re: so Democracy produces freedom, yes?
Posted by: rob banzai
Date: January 26, 2006 10:50AM
//Puts hands over eyes

"I CAN'T SEEEEE YOUUUUU!"
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Re: so Democracy produces freedom, yes?
Posted by: incognegro
Date: January 26, 2006 11:42AM
funny, Rob. smiling smiley

what i'm getting at is the USA forces Democracy on some nations (ie Iraq), under the guise of spreading Freedom.

when elections don't produce the desired puppet regimes, like it might happen in Iraq, has the process let us down?

are the elections in Pakistan Democratic by nature? maybe i am confused by the terminology.



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Re: so Democracy produces freedom, yes?
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: January 26, 2006 11:52AM
Civil war in Iraq was part of the plan to depopulate the area so we can have our bases and the oil. As Hank Kissinger said during the Iran/Iraq war, in which we supported both sides, "I hope they kill each other." If the Sunnis and Shiites are busy shooting at each other they have less ammo to fire at us. Depleted uranium is part of this genocidal policy as well. It doesn't matter that our troops are affected as well since, as Hank also said:
“Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.”




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Re: so Democracy produces freedom, yes?
Posted by: Furiously Stylish
Date: January 26, 2006 01:07PM
incognegro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> funny, Rob.
>
> what i'm getting at is the USA forces Democracy on
> some nations (ie Iraq), under the guise of
> spreading Freedom.
>
> when elections don't produce the desired puppet
> regimes, like it might happen in Iraq, has the
> process let us down?
>
> are the elections in Pakistan Democratic by
> nature? maybe i am confused by the terminology.
>
> __
> .none.more.black.


Democracy isn't an absolute, unless you count Chicago, where some wards have 110% of the registered Democrats voting. Well, Chicago, and Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, too.

If you take the view that we've failed when elections don't give us the desired result, you're either slyly gainsaying the ability of our current administration to let well enough alone elsewhere, or you're admitting that even the patchouli-scented, vegan-eating, tree-hugging lunatic fringe clinging to the Left Coast is part of that ineffable "us."

The idea of democracy is that each person who enjoys suffrage gets to have a say. In places like Switzerland, there are still cities and cantons where people come doeen to the town square and participate in direct plebiscite. Unfortunately, I don't hold much hope for a sun-in-the-corner, happy-stick-figure-people-drawing version of democracy anywhere in that region. They may fake it, but it isn't part of their history and it isn't part of their culture, with a few arguable exceptions like Turkey.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2006 01:08PM by Furiously Stylish.
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Re: so Democracy produces freedom, yes?
Posted by: Jimmypoo
Date: January 26, 2006 04:51PM
Sea of glass............

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Re: so Democracy produces freedom, yes?
Posted by: hal
Date: January 26, 2006 09:26PM
democracy has nothing to due with freedom

must I remind you all about the degree of freedom blacks, indians etc have enjoyed in the first 100 years of this democracy?

We were very proud of our 'democracy' all the way back in days of slavery and no one thought it was a conflict at the time.

The founding fathers never entertained the thought of freedom for all.

No... it's something else that produces freedom... can't put my finger on it....
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Re: so Democracy produces freedom, yes?
Posted by: RgrF
Date: February 01, 2006 12:55AM
Maybe it's letting others alone, to be free to decide for themselves?

Men, women, countries even! Leave them alone.

Why do we have more right to tell Iraq what sort of government it should have than Mexico or Canada has to tell us?

We don't have that right, unlike Mexico and Canada, we do have the power. Is using power a right?




"Who's more foolish - the fool or the fool that follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi
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Re: so Democracy produces freedom, yes?
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: February 02, 2006 12:00AM
Jimmypoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sea of glass............

... and a cloud of nuclear fallout drifting onto friend and foe alike. You are such a sage.

As in sagebrush, tumbleweed brains.
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Re: so Democracy produces freedom, yes?
Posted by: max
Date: October 09, 2017 03:53PM
Quote
RgrF
Maybe it's letting others alone, to be free to decide for themselves?

Men, women, countries even! Leave them alone.

Why do we have more right to tell Iraq what sort of government it should have than Mexico or Canada has to tell us?

We don't have that right, unlike Mexico and Canada, we do have the power. Is using power a right?
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Re: so Democracy produces freedom, yes?
Posted by: RgrF
Date: October 14, 2017 06:37AM
Trump in the White House and max quoting me: The world has has indeed turned on its axis.
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Re: so Democracy produces freedom, yes?
Posted by: billb
Date: October 14, 2017 06:02PM
bump



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