Seems to me that many (most) are forgetting that Harris did make an initial run for the Presidency back in 2019 (January 21, 2019). She was one of 29 “Democrats” who announced their intention to seek the nomination.*

She was the 14th to “suspend” her campaign (December 3, 2019), followed by 4 others who would also quit before the Primaries.

Of those who continued on into the Primaries, 3 were women: Klobuchar, Warren, and Gabbard.

Four of the remaining candidates won at least one State Primary. Meaning Biden, Sanders, Bloomberg, and Buttigieg all had significantly more support than Harris had.

Point being, she didn’t generate much interest among Democrats then, and apparently couldn’t swing the necessary enthusiasm 5 years later.

*Back in 2019, how many Forumites had Harris as their first choice? Don’t all raise your hands at once.

I did. But that was a different time. It was Black people that chose Biden to lead. It was a pragmatic decision designed as the best chance to defeat Trump. It's virtually impossible for a Democrat to achieve the nomination if they don't sign off on it. They wanted Kamala Harris to eventually become president. Just not right then. You can bet your bippy on that.

It's a sports fact (no team has ever won after X) that is true only until it isn't. The sample set for Presidential elections is really small. But it's really rare to wash out that early and then be a true threat in a later run.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2024 06:32PM by Acer.

Quote
DeusxMac
Seems to me that many (most) are forgetting that Harris did make an initial run for the Presidency back in 2019 (January 21, 2019). She was one of 29 “Democrats” who announced their intention to seek the nomination.*

She was the 14th to “suspend” her campaign (December 3, 2019), followed by 4 others who would also quit before the Primaries.

Of those who continued on into the Primaries, 3 were women: Klobuchar, Warren, and Gabbard.

Four of the remaining candidates won at least one State Primary. Meaning Biden, Sanders, Bloomberg, and Buttigieg all had significantly more support than Harris had.

Point being, she didn’t generate much interest among Democrats then, and apparently couldn’t swing the necessary enthusiasm 5 years later.

*Back in 2019, how many Forumites had Harris as their first choice? Don’t all raise your hands at once.

Adding the electoral strategy of the campaign, moving the entire emphasis right while wooing GOP votes imposed a burden, certainly it didn't help to have the likes of Dick Darth Cheney welcomed on board.

I don't think Cheney chased anyone away, but a "Thank you" from Harris was probably all the attention it deserved.

I supported her back in 2019 even donated some money.

I had her as one of my top two or three, and was hoping that she would fare better than she did. Ultimately, I think it was her lack of enthusiasm that seemed strange to me, and her not being a particularly rousing orator that swayed me away before she dropped out. I settled on Pete but knew that we'd end up with Biden. FWIW, I wanted Biden to run instead of Hillary in 2016, and was hoping for at least a primary challenge. but, since he declined, it was obvious he was getting his "second chance." it's just good that he won at his second chance, unlike Hillary.

---

High on a threshold yearning to sing
Down with the dancers having one last fling

Had Biden dropped out before the primaries, Harris probably wouldn’t have won the primaries. Her approval rating, even among Democrats, wasn’t very high.

I can't see how anybody wasn't aware that Harris ran four years ago considering that Trump brought it up constantly, albeit in a factually incorrect and insulting way.

---

I was completely in for Amy Klobuchar at that time. I would also have liked Gretchen Whitmer. I liked Harris but thought that she was too much of a technocrat and did not have that "je ne said quo" quality. That said, the democrats had no choice but to run her after Biden dropped out and she did a great job against insurmountable odds. Hats off to her but given so many constraints (time being a major one) she didn't have a chance.

---

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

Quote
macphanatic
Had Biden dropped out before the primaries, Harris probably wouldn’t have won the primaries. Her approval rating, even among Democrats, wasn’t very high.

She would have wrapped it up mathematically by March 5th. That was Super Tuesday. Y'all don't know how Democratic primaries work.

Quote
DeusxMac
*Back in 2019, how many Forumites had Harris as their first choice? Don’t all raise your hands at once.

I did. There were a number of us.

MacResource Forum Post

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If you want to fix our country, work with us in the states. statesproject.org

"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama

Most people on this forum will happily vote for a woman but for now a majority of the population won't when it comes to electing a president.

---

Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.

Quote
davester
That said, the democrats had no choice but to run her after Biden dropped out and she did a great job against insurmountable odds. Hats off to her but given so many constraints (time being a major one) she didn't have a chance.

I agree with this, with the exception of the time part. Harris reached her peak shortly after Biden stepped down. The GOP was caught flat-footed, but once they got their lies redirected at Harris, her numbers were driven down.

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pdq
The GOP was caught flat-footed, but once they got their lies redirected at Harris, her numbers were driven down.

Ug, so true. And she never really found a response for it.

Pelosi critizies Biden

Seems that one of the most senior Dems realized that they backed the wrong candidate.

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macphanatic
Pelosi critizies Biden

Seems that one of the most senior Dems realized that they backed the wrong candidate.

Hindsight. She can only merely suspect that. People have crystal balls? I love Nancy, but people are covering their butts for forcing Biden out in the first place. What I just said is more believable than what she said. Harris could have won this race.

Pelosi was instrumental in the Biden exit, and she wanted an open primary.

Biden was mad and anointed Harris.

My wife, who loves Biden, wanted him to affirm his one-term decision last year and leave the decision to a full and open primary.

She is perhaps one of the least-engaged (on a daily basis) person I know. If it was obvious to her LAST YEAR, it was even more obvious to many others.

However, it's not clear to me that a 'better' candidate would have won with the current Democratic platform. We would have needed a true 'change' candidate - every single incumbent party lost support around the world (except for authoritarian rulers).

It comes back to the same question that was coming up all during the lead-up to Biden's declination: Who and How. Who would replace him, and how could it be done in a way that did not damage the campaign?

Now we know who it should not have been, and how it should not have been done. But that's all we know.

"There is a fullness of time when men should go, and not occupy too long the ground to which others have the right to advance.”
Thomas Jefferson

no one should be running for national office or be appointed for national office or position after the age of 55.

I did not like Harris then or now.
Kevin Cooper.
But the choice wasn't Harris or the Whopper. It was, as I have said, democracy or fascism/authoritarianism.

I did not know enough about Gov Whitmer at the time, nor did she have any time in the Governors house in '19, but I will be happy to support her in '28, should there be a '28, even though she will be over 55.
At this time, the dems have no one else more worthwhile, other than a torn pocket of miracles.

As I wrote in an earlier thread, it's still 1950 in the US.
A white woman might get thru in '28.

The DNC has not done one iota of homework since 2016.
And really, not since 9/9/09.

On the whole, dems are too f*k*g polite.
They come to an artilery battlefield with a pen, low on ink.

---

!#$@@$#!

Nolite manducare flavo.

Quote
sekker
Pelosi was instrumental in the Biden exit, and she wanted an open primary.

Biden was mad and anointed Harris.

My wife, who loves Biden, wanted him to affirm his one-term decision last year and leave the decision to a full and open primary.

She is perhaps one of the least-engaged (on a daily basis) person I know. If it was obvious to her LAST YEAR, it was even more obvious to many others.

However, it's not clear to me that a 'better' candidate would have won with the current Democratic platform. We would have needed a true 'change' candidate - every single incumbent party lost support around the world (except for authoritarian rulers).

He did not support her out of "mad." He supported her because that's who he was obligated to support. This is a man of conviction and honesty. Why twist these things? Biden isn't a mystery. Anyone with any kind of sense would have known this. But they "ignorantly" thought they were going to force an open primary. I put the emphasis on the word ignorant. But I'll also add hubris and believe it or not, white superiority.

This is a constant misunderstanding of who pulls the levers in the Democratic Party. It's a total lack of respect for the ONLY loyal people that belong to the Democratic Party.

AND here we go. The circular firing squad that I keep mentioning.

---

Quote
$tevie
AND here we go. The circular firing squad that I keep mentioning.

You can't let lies slide by and become part of the record. There's what happened and then there's what didn't happen. You just set yourself up for it to happen again.

There is nothing wrong with analysis, it's when "I knew it all along!" that it becomes ridiculous and unhelpful.

But, it's human nature to do this and ultimately, we have to accept that fact.

As I said a few days ago, it was immigration that was the bugaboo for Dems, and it would have been *any* candidate that was going to be the brunt of that invective. Harris ran a good campaign, but was not the "change" candidate, because she could not be (nor do I think she is, deep down).

---

High on a threshold yearning to sing
Down with the dancers having one last fling

"Democrats after losing by 2 points: Our brand is in ashes. We need a complete overhaul.

Republicans after losing by 4.5 points: Let's run the same guy again."

Bill Scher

Under the circumstances, a party that could not prevent a Donald Trump from retaking office, especially THIS office is broken and in serious need of repair or reconstruction. Threads like this can be cathartic or prove destructive if there’s anything left to fight over or with next time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2024 02:36PM by RgrF.

^ yeah. what he said.

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High on a threshold yearning to sing
Down with the dancers having one last fling

Quote
mrbigstuff
^ yeah. what he said.

That like saying that it doesn't matter what you and the husband that beat you down argued about. It's counterproductive now to set the record straight because you have a mutual enemy. The husband might have had a great reason to "want" to beat you down, but he was wrong for actually beating you down. That needs to be clear.

Quote
vision63

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mrbigstuff
^ yeah. what he said.

That like saying that it doesn't matter what you and the husband that beat you down argued about. It's counterproductive now to set the record straight because you have a mutual enemy. The husband might have had a great reason to "want" to beat you down, but he was wrong for actually beating you down. That needs to be clear.

exactly the reason the husband in your scenario should have been tossed on his ass. why was he not?

---

High on a threshold yearning to sing
Down with the dancers having one last fling

They waited too long to make a change. They could have chosen better if they had started looking after Biden won. Which is what most reasonable people assumed they would do.

In 2020 I didn't think she had much to say. Sort of like Kenny G plays a lot of fast scales, but doesn't have much to say, except she didn't play the fast scales. But I think people wanted to hear something that sparked some interest at least, and I don't think she did that very well. And it might not have mattered anyway.

The thread I see in all the analysis is the Democrats abandoning the working class and people living paycheck to paycheck. I think those are the biggest factors, whether Trump can change anything for those people or not.

As far as gender I think there are very few men I think should be president, and correspondingly few women. There have been very few women put forth, so I just think we haven't seen the right one yet. I don't believe her being a woman is the biggest factor by a long shot.

I very much agree with kj on this topic, including about Kenny G. That said, as I indicated earlier, I think that Kamala did the best she could do with the situation (and time constraint) that she was handed. It is absurd to me that the democrats have become the "elites" and have abandoned the working class, but this is exactly what has happened. The Republicans have now claimed this territory but only through never-ending lies. They don't give a damn about the working class and have not done a damn thing to advance the interests of same. Unfortunately the MAGA voters have no idea that this is true because they are fed a continuous stream of Fox News and talk radio lies. So, there are two problems to solve: 1) Change the Democratic party's platform to truly address working class issues; 2) Find some way to explode the social media/Fox News propaganda stream that brainwashes half the country.

---

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

Have the Democrats really abandoned the working class?
Or have we been told they have abandoned the working class so often that we have come to accept it as an axiom?

Harris platform, per Politifact.
Which of these abandon the working class?

Ban corporate price gouging on food and groceries
Eliminate the filibuster to restore the Roe v. Wade precedent on abortion
Will not raise taxes for those earning less than $400,000 a year
Roll back Trump’s tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans
Enact a minimum tax for billionaires
Increase the tax rate on long-term capital gains to 28% for those earning at least $1 million a year
Expand the child tax credit to $6,000 for families with newborns
Quadruple the tax on stock buybacks
Sign the bipartisan border security bill
Provide first-time homebuyers with up to $25,000 for down payments, plus more generous support for first-generation homeowners
Build 3 million more rental units and affordable homes
Outlaw new forms of price fixing by corporate landlords
Ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines
Require universal background checks for gun sales
Sign the John Lewis Voting Rights Act and the Freedom to Vote Act
Pass the Equality Act to protect LGBTQ+ Americans from discrimination
Extend the $35 cap on insulin and $2,000 cap on out-of-pocket spending to all Americans
Make tax credit enhancements for health care premiums permanent
Launch a National Health Equity Initiative to address health challenges that disproportionately impact Black men.
Take on pharmacy benefit managers
Have Medicare cover in-home health care
Raise the minimum wage
Eliminate taxes on tips
Establish paid family and medical leave
End sub-minimum wages for tipped workers and people with disabilities
Double the number of apprenticeships
End four-year college degree requirements for federal jobs where appropriate
Limit businesses from "unnecessarily" using criminal arrest histories, convictions, and credit scores in employment decisions
Sign the pro-labor PRO Act and the Public Service Freedom to Negotiate Act

There are more, see here: [www.politifact.com]

Quote
Acer
Have the Democrats really abandoned the working class?
Or have we been told they have abandoned the working class so often that we have come to accept it as an axiom?

Harris platform, per Politifact.
Which of these abandon the working class?

Ban corporate price gouging on food and groceries
Eliminate the filibuster to restore the Roe v. Wade precedent on abortion
Will not raise taxes for those earning less than $400,000 a year
Roll back Trump’s tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans
Enact a minimum tax for billionaires
Increase the tax rate on long-term capital gains to 28% for those earning at least $1 million a year
Expand the child tax credit to $6,000 for families with newborns
Quadruple the tax on stock buybacks
Sign the bipartisan border security bill
Provide first-time homebuyers with up to $25,000 for down payments, plus more generous support for first-generation homeowners
Build 3 million more rental units and affordable homes
Outlaw new forms of price fixing by corporate landlords
Ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines
Require universal background checks for gun sales
Sign the John Lewis Voting Rights Act and the Freedom to Vote Act
Pass the Equality Act to protect LGBTQ+ Americans from discrimination
Extend the $35 cap on insulin and $2,000 cap on out-of-pocket spending to all Americans
Make tax credit enhancements for health care premiums permanent
Launch a National Health Equity Initiative to address health challenges that disproportionately impact Black men.
Take on pharmacy benefit managers
Have Medicare cover in-home health care
Raise the minimum wage
Eliminate taxes on tips
Establish paid family and medical leave
End sub-minimum wages for tipped workers and people with disabilities
Double the number of apprenticeships
End four-year college degree requirements for federal jobs where appropriate
Limit businesses from "unnecessarily" using criminal arrest histories, convictions, and credit scores in employment decisions
Sign the pro-labor PRO Act and the Public Service Freedom to Negotiate Act

There are more, see here: [www.politifact.com]

Maybe you think those are the things they should want/need, but that could be part of the problem. I'm struggling to see anything there actually for the blue-collar average person. Maybe a couple, sort of.

Quote
Lemon Drop
"Democrats after losing by 2 points: Our brand is in ashes. We need a complete overhaul.

Republicans after losing by 4.5 points: Let's run the same guy again."

Bill Scher

There's a lot of truth to this. Was Kamala a perfect candidate, and did she run a perfect campaign? No and no. But there was a lot more to it than that. Among other things, there was definitely a messaging problem, especially on the issues of the economy and immigration. However, I do think folks here are also still underestimating the sexist/racist factor. It's just something nobody wants to talk or think about, let alone own up to, but I've heard frequent rumblings from the other side about her having been a "DEI candidate". (Not that that's a new thing, only that they're now being far more overt/blatant about the racism/sexism.) Would we have had the same outcome if she were a white male? Somehow, I don't think so.

FWIW, analysis from Fareed Zakaria here -- I think he makes some good points, others I disagree with him about, but it's worth a listen: [www.youtube.com]

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

Quote
kj

Quote
Acer
Have the Democrats really abandoned the working class?
Or have we been told they have abandoned the working class so often that we have come to accept it as an axiom?

Harris platform, per Politifact.
Which of these abandon the working class?

Ban corporate price gouging on food and groceries
Eliminate the filibuster to restore the Roe v. Wade precedent on abortion
Will not raise taxes for those earning less than $400,000 a year
Roll back Trump’s tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans
Enact a minimum tax for billionaires
Increase the tax rate on long-term capital gains to 28% for those earning at least $1 million a year
Expand the child tax credit to $6,000 for families with newborns
Quadruple the tax on stock buybacks
Sign the bipartisan border security bill
Provide first-time homebuyers with up to $25,000 for down payments, plus more generous support for first-generation homeowners
Build 3 million more rental units and affordable homes
Outlaw new forms of price fixing by corporate landlords
Ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines
Require universal background checks for gun sales
Sign the John Lewis Voting Rights Act and the Freedom to Vote Act
Pass the Equality Act to protect LGBTQ+ Americans from discrimination
Extend the $35 cap on insulin and $2,000 cap on out-of-pocket spending to all Americans
Make tax credit enhancements for health care premiums permanent
Launch a National Health Equity Initiative to address health challenges that disproportionately impact Black men.
Take on pharmacy benefit managers
Have Medicare cover in-home health care
Raise the minimum wage
Eliminate taxes on tips
Establish paid family and medical leave
End sub-minimum wages for tipped workers and people with disabilities
Double the number of apprenticeships
End four-year college degree requirements for federal jobs where appropriate
Limit businesses from "unnecessarily" using criminal arrest histories, convictions, and credit scores in employment decisions
Sign the pro-labor PRO Act and the Public Service Freedom to Negotiate Act

There are more, see here: [www.politifact.com]

Maybe you think those are the things they should want/need, but that could be part of the problem. I'm struggling to see anything there actually for the blue-collar average person. Maybe a couple, sort of.

I counted 17 things that address wages, benefits, housing and employment for persons without a college degree.

Most of them have gotchas, for example:

"End four-year college degree requirements for federal jobs where appropriate"

The only reason they've relaxed requirements (which has happened quite a bit already at other gov levels) is that they can't hire enough people. This is a lot because for the lower level jobs they've gone in a big way toward part time hires and contract work, which you can't make a living doing. You would think they're not smart enough to know this, but they are.

For several of these, it's actually almost insulting to try to make them about blue-collar workers (arrest history and criminal record). But this also being done because the gov has had an increasingly difficult time hiring. Plus, you know the dump truck drivers are going to be all over those federal jobs .

Raise the minimum wage? Total joke. No one makes minimum wage. If you raised it, it wouldn't even touch the lowest paid. Plus, who hasn't said this?

Tips: Economist Ernie Tedeschi estimates that only 2.5% of U.S. workers receive tips. Helps very few people, and people know whether it would help them.

Housing is huge, and I personally don't like the look of what she's proposing at all. I don't want to live in gov't built housing (who would?) and more building does not bring prices down. 25k handout allows private equity etc. to continue charging outrageous prices, so it's like a handout to the "well off". How about nailing the people who are buying up and investing in housing instead?

If I get a chance, I'll keep going, but I guarantee none of this looks good to blue collar workers. They just want to earn a decent living and do their thing. And they don't want to "suck on the gov't teet".

In the end, Democrats spend more time talking about stuff like gender pronouns than things most people are struggling with. You 100% will hear this from blue-collar people, and they're not exactly wrong.

"In the end, Democrats spend more time talking about stuff like gender pronouns than things most people are struggling with. ...".


Wrong.
In the 2024 campaign Trump ran the anti-trans ad 30,000 times, it was the most often played ad by far. Transphobia and related bigotry and hate was made the centerpiece of the campaign.

Thr Harris campaign was not talking about pronouns, Trump and Vance were. To stir up fear.

Kj,
What are the specific Trump policies you believe will help low income workers?

Other than sending stimulus checks and extending unemployment benefits, which a Dem Congress did, what did Trump do in his first term that benefitted those workers?

Is he going to screw up healthcare for the 21 million Americans on Obama care? He tried repeatedly to repeal the ACA during his first term. What is his so-called "concept of a plan" for healthcare?

Quote
Lemon Drop
To stir up fear.

coz fear sells.

---

!#$@@$#!

Nolite manducare flavo.

Quote
kj

The thread I see in all the analysis is the Democrats abandoning the working class and people living paycheck to paycheck. I think those are the biggest factors, whether Trump can change anything for those people or not.

“Abandoning the working class?” Complete nonsense. Real wages (after adjusting for inflation) were up under Biden, and the bottom end saw the biggest gains, reducing income disparities for those blue collar workers:



Unions staged a resurgence under Biden, with members getting big wage increases and benefits that had been taken away by their employers under previous presidents.

Jobs were plentiful - a record 10 million open jobs at one point. Record low unemployment. Employers had to pretty much take anyone with a pulse. Don’t like your job? Change your employer and tell the old one to shove it.

Having pandemic-related hardship? Ever hear of the American Rescue Plan?

Quote

Following enactment of the ARP in March 2021, the Treasury Department oversaw a historic and unprecedented provision of federal assistance to struggling Americans, including delivering more than 150 million Economic Impact Payments within the first few weeks following the American Rescue Plan’s passage; providing emergency rental assistance to prevent evictions across the country; issuing the first ever monthly payments of the Child Tax Credit which supported tens of millions of families…

…and it goes on. Childhood poverty was reduced dramatically to record lows, and all this was done while cutting the the last deficit under Trump in half in two years.

I get that people really don’t like inflation, but this was a worldwide post-pandemic thing. No one could wave a magic wand and get the supply chains working at 100% again overnight. A partially pandemic-related decrease in housing construction led to tight supply and higher housing prices (and higher values for your existing home). The Dems passed the Inflation Reduction Act, and inflation came down to normal levels (which may or may not have been related). Now Trump wants to re-explode the deficit and put a 60% tariff on imported goods - what do you think that will do to prices? It’s not a mystery.

What did Trump do for the blue collar worker? Ran culture ads and blocked border reform. Pushed hate for other people. Passed a tax cut where the meager cuts to the middle class expired, but those of the high end were permanent. And he’ll do it again, blowing up our debt and driving interest rates up.

And somehow this rich playboy who got $400 million from his dad and lived in a gold-plated penthouse in Manhattan when he wasn’t stiffing contractors - that guy is the common man’s savior?

Hoo boy.

Dems have to figure it out, but buying BS isn’t the way.

I'm seeing the double standard here. Harris policies are torn apart by clause and comma, Trump's slogans are taken at face value.

Quote
davester
I very much agree with kj on this topic, including about Kenny G. That said, as I indicated earlier, I think that Kamala did the best she could do with the situation (and time constraint) that she was handed. It is absurd to me that the democrats have become the "elites" and have abandoned the working class, but this is exactly what has happened. The Republicans have now claimed this territory but only through never-ending lies. They don't give a damn about the working class and have not done a damn thing to advance the interests of same. Unfortunately the MAGA voters have no idea that this is true because they are fed a continuous stream of Fox News and talk radio lies. So, there are two problems to solve: 1) Change the Democratic party's platform to truly address working class issues; 2) Find some way to explode the social media/Fox News propaganda stream that brainwashes half the country.

But the Democrats used a lot of elites (wealthy) to campaign for her. This apparently didn't go over well with a lot of people.

Quote
kj
Most of them have gotchas, for example:

"End four-year college degree requirements for federal jobs where appropriate"

What a strange one to pick on. I'll tell you why that was a good idea. My brother worked his way up from a maintenance job to Director of Facilities Management (whoops, Assistant Director). When he was laid off, he could not get a job because he had no college degree, and for every other job was considered "over qualified". THAT is a working-class problem for sure.

Actually, I have another one. I was production manager/print buyer in charge of a million dollar annual budget, and knew the HR person at a state college. They needed a production manager/print buyer so she gave me a ring. Oops, no college degree. Never mind.

---

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2024 01:55PM by $tevie.

Quote
$tevie

Quote
kj
Most of them have gotchas, for example:

"End four-year college degree requirements for federal jobs where appropriate"

What a strange one to pick on. I'll tell you why that was a good idea. My brother worked his way up from a maintenance job to Director of Facilities Management (whoops, Assistant Director). When he was laid off, he could not get a job because he had no college degree, and for every other job was considered "over qualified". THAT is a working-class problem for sure.

Actually, I have another one. I was production manager/print buyer in charge of a million dollar annual budget, and knew the HR person at a state college. They needed a production manager/print buyer so she gave me a ring. Oops, no college degree. Never mind.

Picked because I know why it’s being done. They’ve made the jobs terrible, so can’t hire. That doesn’t help blue collar. I let myself get distracted. No one looks at the written stuff, it’s how democrats talk about blue-collar types. See late night talk show hosts. Stupid, maggot, red neck, Florida/ Texas hate, etc, etc. This stuff shows how dems really feel about them, not statements on a website.

The first thing that comes up when I search says a lot of what im saying:


[www.pbs.org]

Quote
Lemon Drop
"In the end, Democrats spend more time talking about stuff like gender pronouns than things most people are struggling with. ...".


Wrong.
In the 2024 campaign Trump ran the anti-trans ad 30,000 times, it was the most often played ad by far. Transphobia and related bigotry and hate was made the centerpiece of the campaign.

Thr Harris campaign was not talking about pronouns, Trump and Vance were. To stir up fear.

.

If this came out of nowhere, you’d have a point, but this is a response to what democrats talk most about. Idk why you think I'm saying Trump will help the working class.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2024 02:21PM by kj.

Quote
kj

Quote
Lemon Drop
"In the end, Democrats spend more time talking about stuff like gender pronouns than things most people are struggling with. ...".


Wrong.
In the 2024 campaign Trump ran the anti-trans ad 30,000 times, it was the most often played ad by far. Transphobia and related bigotry and hate was made the centerpiece of the campaign.

Thr Harris campaign was not talking about pronouns, Trump and Vance were. To stir up fear.

.

If this came out of nowhere, you’d have a point, but this is a response to what democrats talk most about. Idk why you think I'm saying Trump will help the working class.

"Demcrats talk most about." Hmm. So you say. Or, does right wing media constantly beat this drum: "Do you know what THEY are calling you? Do you know what THEY think of you?"

It's those late night TV comics that drum up all the resentment.

Quote
RgrF
It's those late night TV comics that drum up all the resentment.

That might be tongue in cheek. But they have gotten a little...direct these last 8 years. They may think they are helping. But I'm not so sure. There is a line between calling out the opposition's positions, and just flat out insulting them. We have rule on this forum about that. Calling out the position leaves room for the target to separate themselves to think they aren't talking about me. Get personal, and human nature makes us dig in.

The Daily Show or John Oliver are a different. They are expressly political, and to their credit, will call out either side. Though perhaps there, too the lack subtly is damaging.

Everybody hates Jimmy Fallon, but he doesn't insult the viewers.

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kj
No one looks at the written stuff, it’s how democrats talk about blue-collar types. See late night talk show hosts. Stupid, maggot, red neck, Florida/ Texas hate, etc, etc. This stuff shows how dems really feel about them, not statements on a website.

Wait, what!? I watch a bit of late night TV but I never ever hear anything like that. Are you really hearing this stuff or just parroting what the right wing propagandists say is happening on late night TV? I'd really like to hear some specific quotes from specific people.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

I watched Seth Myers a bit during the pandemic and it was so negative I couldn’t stand it. Foul. I’m thinking he was the worst. Kimmel has been pretty bad too. Colbert is mostly just relentlessly smug, but if you love or care about the people they are badmouthing, it’s pretty intolerable. And most of what I hear progressives say on Facebook etc. directly parrots this stuff. Minimize if you want, but it has a lot more effect than Kamala’s list.