He didn't deliver the White Guy vote, that's for sure.

Did deliver his homestate of MN but by a 2 point smaller margin than 2020.

Did not capture WI or MI as was hoped.

Would someone else have been better? Latino man perhaps?

I think he's a great guy, and maybe nobody could have overcome this moment in US politics.

I do think that if the Harris (or any Dem candidate) campaign had been under less time pressure she might have chosen someone else.

I don't think VP candidates mattered.

---

I think a charismatic VP only helps an uncharismatic Presidential Candidate. But they are afraid of being upstaged.

A charismatic Pres Candidate doesn't care one way or another, So Trump got Vance, Pence, both pretty boring, but Obama got Biden, who could (back then) hold his own, as he showed in the 2020 run.

For HRC and Harris got someone pretty milquetoast-y, when there where probably better candidates out there, and I do mean Bernie for HRC which would have united the party rather than taking a dump on the left wing.

I also was hoping for Mark Kelly for Harris. An astronaut, veteran, survivor of Gun Violence (remember Congressperson Giffords?). But maybe his star was too bright?
Since AZ has a demo governor, that senate seat would have been safe as well.

---

San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater

Quote
mattkime
I don't think VP candidates mattered.

Shapiro might have helped in PA, but as I said before, while he seems to be tolerated by the Republican parts of the state, he's not a rock star here.

That's a question with too much ephemeral, lightning in a bottle calculus for me; particularly after the knife fight is over.

I appreciate those that take on the challenge; the answer is worth knowing. Me? I'm outta gas (mostly).

---

A priest, a rabbit and a minister walk into a bar.
The bartender asks the rabbit "what'll ya have?"
The rabbit says "I dunno. I'm only here because of Autocorrect.


National Suicide Prevention Lifeline
As of July 16, 2022, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is now available by simply dialing 988. The previous number, 1-800-273-8255, will remain active.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

Quote
Acer

Quote
mattkime
I don't think VP candidates mattered.

Shapiro might have helped in PA, but as I said before, while he seems to be tolerated by the Republican parts of the state, he's not a rock star here.

Shapiro may not want to run. This may not be what he wants to have brought up nationally.

Quote
macphanatic

Quote
Acer

Quote
mattkime
I don't think VP candidates mattered.

Shapiro might have helped in PA, but as I said before, while he seems to be tolerated by the Republican parts of the state, he's not a rock star here.

Shapiro may not want to run. This may not be what he wants to have brought up nationally.

I hope the person researching that is able to find answers, but they don't have them yet.

No other choice would have made any difference.

---

Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

It's the party itself that needs a Wiley Coyote treatment. How can you expect a group that includes many who spend their time trading stock tips, clipping coupons and cutting commercial deals to represent the working class?

Quote
RgrF
It's the party itself that needs a Wiley Coyote treatment. How can you expect a group that includes many who spend their time trading stock tips, clipping coupons and cutting commercial deals to represent the working class?

Yeah, it’s those intellectual elites who can think critically who don’t care about propagandizing the working class.

---

Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

IMO, Walz looked unpolished in comparison to Vance during their debate, which didn’t help Harris. But it wasn’t a dealbreaker. To be clear, Vance lied his ass off, but perception is a big deal.

Quote
Numo
IMO, Walz looked unpolished in comparison to Vance during their debate, which didn’t help Harris. But it wasn’t a dealbreaker. To be clear, Vance lied his ass off, but perception is a big deal.

Perception is everything but it did Harris no good to wipe the floor with Trump when the next day right wing hate media, with a few exceptions, portrayed Trump as winning. Walz faired better in post-debate polls than the slick elitist Vance.

---

Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

Non-effective. Didn't really make any difference. Now if it'd been someone with a last name like Obama, Winfrey, Bootyjudge, etc… maybe.

Quote
Numo
IMO, Walz looked unpolished in comparison to Vance during their debate, which didn’t help Harris. But it wasn’t a dealbreaker. To be clear, Vance lied his ass off, but perception is a big deal.

It's a myth that the "working class" votes more for Republicans than Democrats.

This whole thread is filled with misconceptions that can't stand up to truthful scrutiny.

It's sad because you all believe it all so strongly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2024 02:22PM by vision63.

Quote
vision63

Quote
Numo
IMO, Walz looked unpolished in comparison to Vance during their debate, which didn’t help Harris. But it wasn’t a dealbreaker. To be clear, Vance lied his ass off, but perception is a big deal.

It's a myth that the "working class" votes more for Republicans than Democrats.

This whole thread is filled with misconceptions that can't stand up to truthful scrutiny.

It's sad because you all believe it all so strongly.

To be honest I'm not sure what these labels mean now, "working class," "blue collar.." which leaves out "pink collar" and all the service jobs. I hate all of it, it's pointless and condescending.

Everybody deserves dignity and respect.

Clearly a lot of people who are not rich voted for Trump.

Clearly a lot of people who are not rich voted for Trump because they hate the same people.

---

Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

Hate - the great uniter.

Trump put together a really disparate coalition.
Billionaires and Wall Street types voting for only their pocketbooks, lower taxes and no regulation.
Crypto geeks who want no regulation on crypto and government support plus a government stockpile
Racists
People who think he will lower the price of eggs and milk and do not understand how tariffs work
Women haters
Abortion haters
LGBTQ haters
Immigrant haters, even if they are immigrants themselves.
Fundamentalist Christians, one group I can’t ever understand how they rationalize their support.

That’s a lot of people you would never expect to see lumped together. What a dinner party that would make.

---

Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)

Quote
rgG
Fundamentalist Christians, one group I can’t ever understand how they rationalize their support.

“… a militant attitude with regard to their core beliefs…”

“… a reaction to … liberalism and cultural modernism.”

“… fanaticism or extremism… consider it a banner of pride…”

“… beliefs in conspiracy theories…”

Christian Fundamentalist, trump zealot, or both???

To paraphrase Voltaire, “Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you believe trump is a divine tool of god.”

It's fairly simple. In right wing political houses of worship people are told that only evil people vote for Democrats.

Verbatim.

It's time to drop the whole game of pretending churches are normal nonprofits that are not allowed to do politics. That is just a big Ole joke.

Liberal churches, get busy. We've got a fight on our hands.

To paraphrase The Bard “FIRST WE KILL THE PREACHERS”.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2024 09:46AM by RgrF.

Quote
Lemon Drop
It's fairly simple. In right wing political houses of worship people are told that only evil people vote for Democrats.

Verbatim.

It's time to drop the whole game of pretending churches are normal nonprofits that are not allowed to do politics. That is just a big Ole joke.

Liberal churches, get busy. We've got a fight on our hands.

Entire denominations, let alone churches, have split over left-right social politics. How come only the right-wing factions seem to have any pull on the political front? Why aren't the liberal churches and denominations a larger presence in the conversation? I don't ask this as a snark or rhetoric. Seriously, what are they doing? I wonder if they are embarrassed to be liberal.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2024 11:20AM by Acer.

Quote
Acer

Quote
Lemon Drop
It's fairly simple. In right wing political houses of worship people are told that only evil people vote for Democrats.

Verbatim.

It's time to drop the whole game of pretending churches are normal nonprofits that are not allowed to do politics. That is just a big Ole joke.

Liberal churches, get busy. We've got a fight on our hands.

Entire denominations, let alone churches, have split over left-right social politics. How come we the right-wing factions seem to have any pull on the political front? Why aren't the liberal churches and denominations a larger presence in the conversation? I don't ask this as a snark or rhetoric. Seriously, what are they doing? I wonder if they are embarrassed to be liberal.

Not embarrassed at all, why would we be? When I read the teachings of Jesus I don't see anything about mass deportations, tax cuts for billionaires, destroying the environment, outlawing the feeding of homeless families, or hating everybody who is different than you

In my experience and knowledge, houses of worship that practice social justice generally follow the letter and spirit of the law, which means not endorsing specific candidates or parties.

You can certainly talk about policy ideas though, and we do. I'm not suggesting this lines up exactly with Democratic politics, that isn't the idea. It's more about living out a set of values in your community and in the world. And we're way more quiet about that than the other side.

Black Evangelical churches are cohesive and powerful. Democrats will have to be more careful if they don’t want to alienate them, as I think it has already begun.

Quote
kj
Black Evangelical churches are cohesive and powerful. Democrats will have to be more careful if they don’t want to alienate them, as I think it has already begun.

I don't know why you keep thinking there's this dangerous erosion.

Liberal churches, get busy. We've got a fight on our hands.

but there is no reciprocity, or equivalence. that is the essence of the problem. trumpism is a religion, as it dovetails nicely with what those folks already "believe" and their outlook on life (or lack thereof). the trumpets are more prone to religious belief, as there is a lot of "destiny" embedded in their mindset already. that sort of thing cannot transfer to the other side, as there just isn't an equivalent.

---

High on a threshold yearning to sing
Down with the dancers having one last fling