[www.ksl.com]

another cite

[www.foxnews.com]

I did not think it was legal for the police to pull you out of your house and take you to jail unless they have an arrest warrant. She might be able to sue them for enough money to pay her water bill. ;)

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In tha 360. MRF User Map

sadly, from what I read, I think they arrested her for not identifying herself; which the SCOTUS upheld a citizen is required to do. Who knows. Society sucks.

Hi everyone,

It seems all of you are missing some aspects of the situation. She wasn't arrested for failing to water her lawn. The office was simply writing her a ticket for that. The reason she was arrested were for her refusal to give her name to the officer and walking away from him as he attempted to give her the ticket. The arrest itself had nothing to do with her failure to water the lawn.

Robert

Why do you think I missed that? I stated the same thing. In the post above yours.

JP,

Yups. I missed that. Yet, you still didn't change your headline, which is misleading.

Robert

I can't quote the whole thing in a headline. Plus, I learnT my tactics from local tv news!

I did not state she was arrest FOR refusing to water her lawn.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2007 11:29AM by Jp!.

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Jp!
I stated the same thing. In the post above yours.

No. you didn't.

You said that she was arrested for not identifying herself.

RM said she was arrested for not giving her name to a police officer who was writing her up for a violation.

Those are two completely different things. If you are minding your own business and a cop asks you to identify yourself, you should be able to walk away if he can't give you a reason.

If a cop is asking you to ID yourself because he just caught you breaking the law, then you ID yourself, or risk the consequences.

Quote
Robert M
JP,

Yups. I missed that. Yet, you still didn't change your headline, which is misleading.

Robert

I think the four dots covers that. Maybe...maybe not.

the way I understand it ... if a cop asks you your name, you are OBLIGED to give it or you are breaking the law. Again, this was a recent SCOTUS decision, IIRC. You do NOT have to be under arrest FIRST.

Again, that is MY understanding... I could be wrong. Probably am. But I will conduct myself in a manner such that I WILL identify myself if asked.

[64.233.167.104]

....
It was all captured on video, so you can play along at home. The crucial bit is where Hiibel is asked 11 times to identify himself, and—not knowing why the cop is asking—he refuses. The cops arrested him and charged him for that refusal.
....

When I say 'under arrest' I mean not an arrest-able offence. Like watering your lawn too little. But, in trying to find out WHO to CITE, the office conducting his business asks the person to ID themselves and THEN in refusing to do so, can pull that charge on them.

I would say NO ONE really likes it, but that's the state of affairs we find ourselves in today.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2007 02:46PM by Jp!.

So why was he at her home in the first place?
It was because she hadn't watered her garden, so it did have something to do with the case.
Maybe a lack of communication with this elderly lady was the main problem.
That is still no excuse for the heavy handed tactics used.

Bernadette,

True. The officer was there to cite her for violating the law in regards to watering her lawn. However, the rest is a direct result of her actions. No arrest would have been made if the woman had simply given her name to the officer and remained in place. She chose to not give her name to him and started to go inside and close the door. While the tactics might be heavy handed, the cop was again following the law and doing his job. Funny, none of the articles offer any details about the other options available to the officer in reference to the situation.

Robert

So any cop can go door to door to give people a ticket for some mostly bogus reason and arrest everybody that does not give their name? Sounds like a Totalitarian state to me.

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Filliam,

Nopes. It's simply the law. Follow said law and it's a non-issue. It'd be a different matter entirely if a cop could walk up and arrest you without any cause at all or one created out of thin air for the sake of convenience. That'd be a totalitarian state.

Robert

Giving someone a ticket for not watering their lawn sounds pretty darn close to "created out of thin air" to me.

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In tha 360. MRF User Map

Filliam,

Actually, not at all. Consider. In my parent's town, they cannot install a shed. They can repair an existing one but not build a brand-new one. They can get cited for building one. Outof thin air? No. Ridiculous? Yes, as far as I'm concerned but well within the law even if I disagree with it.

Robert

Well jp!, your feigning of ignorance doesn't wash. Your thread title clearly implies that she was arrested for refusing to water the lawn and you provided no post content indicating otherwise. You are guilty as charged!

In our town there's a higher likelihood that you'd be given a ticket for watering the lawn, since we live in the arid west and almost certainly have impending water shortages and rationing coming up.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

If the city wants to send you a fine, don't they typically do so through the mail? I'm wondering why an officer was on her property, physically grabbing her, without a warrant. I don't believe the SCOTUS decision mandating ID applies if you are in your own home, and I also think the zoning ordinance for not watering your lawn is dubious; unless you live in a HOA, you shouldn't have to maintain an immaculate golfing green.

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Le poète doit vivre beaucoup, vivre dans tous les sens. - Verlaine

Quote
Marc Anthony
If the city wants to send you a fine, don't they typically do so through the mail? I'm wondering why an officer was on her property, physically grabbing her, without a warrant.

If you've seen pictures of her property, I'd guess that NUMEROUS mailed citations had been sent and ignored.

Most municipalities try sending those tickets/citations in a non-legal manner (ie: not served properly by a peace officer who guarantees identification, as in a subpena). Ignored, they have no legal standing, hence a final attempt is by an officer.

That said, I have NO opinion on whether they were "correct" in citing her or making an arrest.

Quote
davester
Well jp!, your feigning of ignorance doesn't wash. Your thread title clearly implies that she was arrested for refusing to water the lawn and you provided no post content indicating otherwise. You are guilty as charged!

Jp! reports.
You decide.

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[en.wikipedia.org]

Quote
Pops
Most municipalities try sending those tickets/citations in a non-legal manner (ie: not served properly by a peace officer who guarantees identification, as in a subpena). Ignored, they have no legal standing, hence a final attempt is by an officer.

That said, I have NO opinion on whether they were "correct" in citing her or making an arrest.

Come on. Don't you even want to take a guess?

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Quote
Pops

Quote
Marc Anthony
If the city wants to send you a fine, don't they typically do so through the mail? I'm wondering why an officer was on her property, physically grabbing her, without a warrant.

If you've seen pictures of her property, I'd guess that NUMEROUS mailed citations had been sent and ignored.

Most municipalities try sending those tickets/citations in a non-legal manner (ie: not served properly by a peace officer who guarantees identification, as in a subpena). Ignored, they have no legal standing, hence a final attempt is by an officer.

That said, I have NO opinion on whether they were "correct" in citing her or making an arrest.

Watch PBS/POV's Flag Wars. I just did. Gives good idea WHY people have property violations and how they are used against people. It's sad in some ways. (Mental illness/physical illness, etc. )

[www.pbs.org]

That was one stupid cop.

Reading the end of the story explains it all.

"When police brass learned what happened, she was immediately released."

Isn't Utah in a drought? And they're ticketing people for NOT pouring water on something that shouldn't be growing there in the 1st place? Damn Mormons. I mean morons.

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MormAns?