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Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: spearmint
Date: December 20, 2007 08:35PM
400 top scientists come out as members of Al Gore's "flat earth society." Consensus apparently not in place. First report is press release which is the introduction to study.

Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works Press Blog (includes intro and links to study with and without introduction.)

[epw.senate.gov]

Some excerpts from intro:
This new report details how teams of international scientists are dissenting from the UN IPCC’s view of climate science. In such nations as Germany, Brazil, the Netherlands, Russia, New Zealand and France, nations, scientists banded together in 2007 to oppose climate alarmism. In addition, over 100 prominent international scientists sent an open letter in December 2007 to the UN stating attempts to control climate were “futile.”



The distinguished scientists featured in this new report are experts in diverse fields, including: climatology; oceanography; geology; biology; glaciology; biogeography; meteorology; oceanography; economics; chemistry; mathematics; environmental sciences; engineering; physics and paleoclimatology. Some of those profiled have won Nobel Prizes for their outstanding contribution to their field of expertise and many shared a portion of the UN IPCC Nobel Peace Prize with Vice President Gore.

The report counters the claims made by the promoters of man-made global warming fears that the number of skeptical scientists is dwindling.




Da Good Life
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: December 20, 2007 09:20PM
Please check your sources.

"The new report issued by the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee’s office of the GOP Ranking Member..."

It didn't come from the committee. It came from one guy's office. James Inhofe. This guy:

[en.wikipedia.org]

Quote


Inhofe, former chairman of the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, is a strong critic of the scientific consensus that climate change is occurring as a result of human activities. In a July 28, 2003, Senate speech, Inhofe claimed to offer "compelling evidence that catastrophic global warming is a hoax. That conclusion is supported by the painstaking work of the nation's top climate scientists."[10] He cited as support for this the 1992 Heidelberg Appeal and the Oregon Petition (1999), as well the opinions of numerous individual scientists that he named (although most climate scientists, as represented by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), now believe that climate change is an existing phenomenon). In his speech, Inhofe also claimed that, "satellite data, confirmed by NOAA balloon measurements, confirms that no meaningful warming has occurred over the last century."[11] However the satellite temperature record corroborates the well-documented warming trend noted in surface temperature measurements.[12] Additionally, the satellite record begins in 1979 and the balloon record effectively in 1958, so it is unclear what Inhofe means by "last century".

In a 2006 interview with the Tulsa World newspaper, Inhofe compared environmentalists to Nazis. He said, "It kind of reminds... I could use the Third Reich, the Big Lie... You say something over and over and over and over again, and people will believe it, and that's their [the environmentalists'] strategy... A hot summer has nothing to do with global warming. Let's keep in mind it was just three weeks ago that people were saying, 'Wait a minute; it is unusually cool...." He then said, "Everything on which they [the environmentalists] based their story, in terms of the facts, has been refuted scientifically."[13] Inhofe had previously compared the United States Environmental Protection Agency to the Gestapo.[14] He had also made allegations that the Weather Channel is behind the alleged global warming hoax, so as to attract viewers.[15][16] Inhofe had previously claimed that Global Warming is "the second-largest hoax ever played on the American people, after the separation of church and state."[17]

Inhofe, claiming uncertainties related to climate science and the adverse impact that mandatory emissions reductions would have on the U.S. economy, voted on June 22, 2005 to reject an amendment to an energy bill that would have forced reductions in emissions of greenhouse gases and created a mandatory emissions trading scheme. "Global warming is still considered to be a theory and has not come close to being sufficiently proven", he said.

Inhofe has similarly criticized predictions of ozone depletion, particularly in relation to the Arctic.[18]

In 2006, Inhofe gave a speech in the Senate in which he argued that the threat of global warming was exaggerated by "the media, Hollywood elites and our pop culture." Inhofe claimed that "From the late 1920s until the 1960s they [the media] warned of global warming. From the 1950s until the 1970s they warned us again of a coming ice age. This makes modern global warming the fourth estate's fourth attempt to promote opposing climate change fears during the last 100 years." He also accused the media of ignoring scientists such as Roger A. Pielke and William Gray who, Inhofe claims, disagree with global warming.[19]

Only Texas senator John Cornyn received more campaign donations from the oil and gas industry in the 2002 election cycle.[20] The contributions Inhofe has received from the energy and natural resource sector since taking office have exceeded one million dollars.[21]

I've seen this guy on tv claiming that God told him through the bible that global warming is a conspiracy by Democrats and struggling newspapers trying to raise money.

His "report" only categorizes scientists into two categories, "believers" and "skeptics."

Name me a scientist worth the appellation who is not a "skeptic."
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: spearmint
Date: December 20, 2007 09:45PM
Now click on the link on that linkfor the actual study. Presto no Inhofe! Other than that heading going away same text. Just a study by 400 distinguished scientists. Take the time to check the link. Right there on the page. Here it is to make it easier.

[epw.senate.gov]


Al Gore and other of his believers are the ones who brought up "flat earth society" which is insulting to the real skeptics and more so to Al and the other namecallers themselves. Hardly scientific or worthy of the appellation of "scientist."




Da Good Life
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: brofoski
Date: December 20, 2007 09:50PM
Quote
spearmint
Just a study by 400 distinguished scientists.

No. It isn't.

Your Al Gore hard-on is robbing your brain of precious blood.
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Date: December 20, 2007 09:54PM
I have 10 global warming answers:
1. Al Gore $
2. Al Gore $$
3. Al Gore $$$
4. Al Gore $$$$
5. Al Gore $$$$$
6. Al Gore $$$$$$
7. Al Gore $$$$$$$
8. Al Gore $$$$$$$$
9. Al Gore $$$$$$$$$
10. Al Gore $$$$$$$$$$

Proud Global Warming denier,
CB.
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: December 20, 2007 10:01PM
> Now click on the link on that linkfor the actual study.

It's not a study.

It's not a report.

It's a press release with a vainglorious title.
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: December 20, 2007 10:33PM
So Minty, are you changing your position?

You previously said that global warming was a vast left-wing conspiracy.

Are you now saying that global warming is real, but that the man-made part is the conspiracy?

Sorry, but it's hard to keep up with the flip-flops.
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: spearmint
Date: December 20, 2007 10:39PM
Quote
MacMagus
> Now click on the link on that linkfor the actual study.

It's not a study.

It's not a report.

It's a press release with a vainglorious title.

Take a look at the www. it is a Senate Report yes by the minority. Too bad one by one you can not take down the 400 scientists who contributed. It would first involve reading it which I know is too much to expect. The impact of greenhouse gases takes a real beating.

Do a text find to "greenhouse gases" and check some of the many mentions. Not too much worry about the gases. certainly not mans' effect.




Da Good Life
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: brofoski
Date: December 20, 2007 11:58PM
Your "scientific study" debunks an imaginary consensus. I'm sure Scientist Davester will attempt to explain it to you, yet again. Those liberals up north are kind and patient like that. I'm one of those Streisand liberals who's got better things to do, like hire illegal aliens to rebuild my Malibu homes...again. I'm outta here like it was the bottom of the 7th at Dodger Stadium.
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: RgrF
Date: December 21, 2007 12:14AM
Top of the fourth is current bail out time at the Stadium.



"Who's more foolish - the fool or the fool that follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: brofoski
Date: December 21, 2007 12:25AM
What the hell do I know about baseball anyway? I'm an Angels fan. I leave when I run out of beach balls.
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: December 21, 2007 12:31AM
> Take a look at the www. it is a Senate Report yes by the minority.

No. It's not.

Call a sow a goat and it'll still make bacon.
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: December 21, 2007 12:42AM
I think 'minty actually lives north of Davester now.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: billb
Date: December 21, 2007 07:42AM



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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: maco
Date: December 21, 2007 10:08AM
How to Talk to a Global Warming Sceptic
[illconsidered.blogspot.com]
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: spearmint
Date: December 21, 2007 10:11AM
Former Vice President Al Gore (November 5, 2007): “There are still people who believe that the Earth is flat.” Gore also compared global warming skeptics to people who 'believe the moon landing was actually staged in a movie lot in Arizona' (June 20, 2006 )

UN special climate envoy Dr. Gro Harlem Brundtland on May 10, 2007 declared the climate debate "over" and added “it's completely immoral, even, to question” the UN’s scientific “consensus."


This Report shows both are saying very questionable and I think dishonest things to sway the masses and from the responses here somewhat successful at with those who want to believe to foster their political causes.




Da Good Life
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: brofoski
Date: December 21, 2007 10:22AM
Quote
spearmint
This Report shows both are saying very questionable and I think dishonest things to sway the masses and from the responses here somewhat successful at with those who want to believe to foster their political causes.

HAAAAAA! What a Hypocrite!!!!!

Quote
spearmint
Just a study by 400 distinguished scientists.

Quote
spearmint
Just a study by 400 distinguished scientists.

Quote
spearmint
Just a study by 400 distinguished scientists.
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: spearmint
Date: December 21, 2007 10:28AM
Would someone please question the content of this Senate Report or bother to glance at it? No references so far. Prove these 400 plus scientists wrong.




Da Good Life
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: brofoski
Date: December 21, 2007 10:36AM
The scientists don't need to be proved wrong. James Inhofe is wrong. There is no scientific consensus. If you buy into a scientific consensus that makes you no better that the Al Gore groupies.
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: December 21, 2007 11:02AM
> Would someone please question the content of this Senate Report

Find a "report" in that mess.

It's nothing more than a list of disjointed quotes, names and provocative language. It's a poorly-worded press release and nothing more.
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: voodoopenguin
Date: December 21, 2007 11:10AM
Quote
spearmint
Would someone please question the content of this Senate Report or bother to glance at it? No references so far. Prove these 400 plus scientists wrong.

Prove them right. Where's the proof? The 'more than 400' scientists who believe the opposite. Their proof is just as valid.
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: billb
Date: December 21, 2007 11:35AM
Is this an AA meeting ?
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: brofoski
Date: December 21, 2007 11:41AM
Al-coholics Anonymous?
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: December 21, 2007 11:42AM
No.

They have coffee & donuts at those.
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: x-uri
Date: December 21, 2007 01:31PM
Okay, glancing at the report.

1) It is a report to the Senate from James Inhofe's office.

2) The prefatory remarks try to make the case that the idea of a scientific "consensus" has been used to promote the idea that the climate is changing and/or that human activity is a causal factor in that change. From the examples listed, it is apparent that the report is taking issue with the presentation of this alleged consensus in the popular media.

3) The body of the report is a list of people with various scientific credentials who are purported to disagree with one or more features of the anthropogenic hypothesis for global climate change.

This is nothing new. Inhofe's office churns out these reports on regular babsis. When he was the head of the Environment and Public Works Committee he used to call several of these folks to testify all the time.

Even if we overlook the ringers and shills paid by energy companies, the unqualified cranks, and the folks who are arguing that global warming is good, the list really doesn't prove anything.

The initial point is conceded: Folks in the popular media do, indeed, talk about scientific consensus as a point of persuasion in favor of the anthropogenic hypothesis.

However

1) Scientists are not compelled by this consensus. Nor is there any agency offering research grants on the basis the principal investigator's intention that the research will support the anthropogenic hypothesis. Under the Bush administration, the reverse has more often been the case.

Consensus, insofar as it exists, is an effect rather than a cause. The fact that the overwhelming majority of climatologists working on the question of global climate change have been unable to refute the anthropogenic hypothesis speaks to the robustness of the hypothesis.

2) Consensus is NOT the same thing as unanimity. Science is all about dissent and disagreement. However, the dissenters must bring compelling evidence. It is not enough to say "I don't agree", you must refute the hypothesis by showing how it fails to explain the data, or by constructing a new hypothesis that does a better job of explaining the data.

If any of Inhofe's 400 scientists is able to refute the anthropogenic hypothesis, it is truly unfortunate that he or she is being classed cranks, shills, and kookberries.

It is fortunate for us that we can count upon Mint to thoroughly examine the research of all 400 dissenters and will report back which of them has the best explanation for the recent rapid and accelerating warming trend in globally and seasonally averaged temperatures.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2007 01:33PM by x-uri.
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: voodoopenguin
Date: December 21, 2007 01:49PM
Quote
spearmint

Almost got me there. Not fair. You know I am easily duped.
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: spearmint
Date: December 21, 2007 03:24PM
I believe the 400 plus brought up here as much as you do your "believers. On the basis of credentials you cannot come with better. I do not have to prove anything.




Da Good Life
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: Greg the dogsitter
Date: December 21, 2007 03:40PM
Quote
spearmint
I believe the 400 plus brought up here as much as you do your "believers."
Ad hominem.

Quote
spearmint
On the basis of credentials you cannot come with better.
Appeal to authority.

Quote
spearmint
I do not have to prove anything.
Non sequitur.
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: December 21, 2007 04:12PM
> I do not have to prove anything.

...Which attitude disqualifies you from making an authoritative evaluation of anything having to do with science.
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: billb
Date: December 21, 2007 05:30PM

Allah Gore
wants you all to play nice.
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: spearmint
Date: December 21, 2007 06:54PM
Quote
Greg the dogsitter
Quote
spearmint
I believe the 400 plus brought up here as much as you do your "believers."
Ad hominem.

Doesn't this apply to most of the personal attacks here? How does my quote above qualify?




Da Good Life
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: spearmint
Date: December 21, 2007 08:24PM
Quick! Turn on Fair and Balanced on the tube! Hannity and Colmes to discuss report on show. More publicity. Good stuff. Colmes probably will have some nasty stuff to say but he really does not believe that lefty stuff. Too nice a guy. Saw him in person and he is a funny guy.




Da Good Life
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: spearmint
Date: December 21, 2007 08:52PM
Hannity off tonight. Bummer and Mark Steyn did not get a chance to interrogate.




Da Good Life
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: December 21, 2007 10:45PM
Quote
x-uri
Science is all about dissent and disagreement. However, the dissenters must bring compelling evidence. It is not enough to say "I don't agree", you must refute the hypothesis by showing how it fails to explain the data, or by constructing a new hypothesis that does a better job of explaining the data.


Well, I believe that soot is the elixir of life!
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: DeBunk deJunk
Date: December 25, 2007 12:53AM
Quote
Lux Interior
Quote
x-uri
Science is all about dissent and disagreement. However, the dissenters must bring compelling evidence. It is not enough to say "I don't agree", you must refute the hypothesis by showing how it fails to explain the data, or by constructing a new hypothesis that does a better job of explaining the data.


There is no final "refutation," of course, because most of the predictions related to this "human-caused global warming" scenario describe the future.

Refuting the IPCC alalysis for some of its analysis of climate of the past, for example, is quite easy - say, over the period 1970-2000 (If anyone asks, I'll so it, but if not, I won't bother).

The issue is, is this going to bring on some catastrophe? I believe any such thing as catastrophe from human related activities is impossible - but how does one prove that to somebody?

If I tell somebosy - you're going to be OK - will that make a difference? If I write down 130 equations and tell them, there see? Nothing to worry about.

Will they still be convinced?

I'm one of those awful 400.

Some people have the time to look at something and analyze it and say, it isn't right.

Some people have the ability to do that and some some don't

Some people who have the ability to do that also have the courage to say in public, it isn't right

Some people have the guts to put on an Army uniform and stand out in the streets of Baghdad and risk gettin g blown to pieces and some don't

But the country has lasted for more than 200 years because people who had the courage to do something like that, live in the country
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: DeBunk deJunk
Date: December 25, 2007 12:56AM
Quote
Lux Interior
Quote
x-uri
Science is all about dissent and disagreement. However, the dissenters must bring compelling evidence. It is not enough to say "I don't agree", you must refute the hypothesis by showing how it fails to explain the data, or by constructing a new hypothesis that does a better job of explaining the data.


There is no final "refutation," of course, because most of the predictions related to this "human-caused global warming" scenario describe the future.

Refuting the IPCC analysis of climate of the past, for example, is quite easy - say, over the period 1970-2000 (If anyone asks, I'll so it, but if not, I won't bother).

The issue is, is this going to bring on some catastrophe? I believe any such thing as catastrophe from human related activities is impossible - but how does one prove that to somebody?

If I tell somebosy - you're going to be OK - will that make a difference? If I write down 130 equations and tell them, there see? Nothing to worry about.

Will they still be convinced?

I'm one of those awful 400.

Some people have the time to look at something and analyze it and say, it isn't right.

Some people have the ability to do that and some some don't

Some people who have the ability to do that also have the courage to say in public, it isn't right

Some people have the guts to put on an Army uniform and stand out in the streets of Baghdad and risk getting blown to pieces and some don't

But the country has lasted for more than 200 years because people who had the courage to do something like that, live in the country
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: December 25, 2007 08:03AM
> There is no final "refutation," of course, because most of the predictions
> related to this "human-caused global warming" scenario describe the future.
> ...

I suggest that you and others similarly ignorant of the nature of scientific paradigms read some of Stephen Jay Gould's books. I highly recommend "Time's Arrow, Time's Cycle" in particular.
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: spearmint
Date: December 25, 2007 03:37PM
There is nothing scientific about exaggerating the "consensus" that does not exist. Al Gore makes a fool of himself doing this. Twelve scientists?




Da Good Life
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Re: Senate Report Debunks "Consensus" on man made GW.
Posted by: davester
Date: December 27, 2007 02:19PM
There is absolutely no point in arguing with spearmint on this point. I base this on the "Unified Spearmint Posting Theory" which has been derived from analysis of massive database of past spearmint posts and is supported by a consensus of 'friendly political ranting forum posters.

The "Unified Spearmint Posting Theory" has as it's main points:

1. Spearmint already knows the truth (his truth) and therefore has no need for silly things such as "debate", "facts", or "science".

2. Spearmint's primary activity is to seek out and post any headline that at first glance could possibly be critical of the IPCC's conclusions (irregardless of whether the document itself is critical).

3. Spearmint actively avoids any information that could possibly construed as supporting the IPCC's conclusions (of necessity this must include virtually all scientific data).

4. Spearmint will at some point in each thread start criticizing Al Gore, as though he has something to do with the science of global climate change.

5. Spearmint will reply to any post that provides a detailed scientific analysis of thread issues by both disregarding any facts and by posting simple non sequitur statements such as "I don't have to prove anything" or "Twelve scientists?"

6. Nothing that is said will result in changes to the above behaviour.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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