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Ohio Sec'y of State's ties to fascist racists
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 10, 2006 05:23PM
Kenneth Blackwell has curried support from white supremacist ultra-rich organizations, whose membership includes investors in the computer voting machines he used to give Bush the Whitehouse.
[www.freepress.org]
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Re: Ohio Sec'y of State's ties to fascist racists
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 10, 2006 10:26PM
Pic of Blackwell speaking to the klansmen:
[www.uaprogressiveaction.com]

Um, Kenny - you do realize they hate blacks, don't you?
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Re: Ohio Sec'y of State's ties to fascist racists
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: March 11, 2006 05:42AM
'Ever checked the donor rolls of a politician before? Or a PAC or a "think tank" like the Heritage Foundation? Or the Young America's Foundation? They're all filthy with money from intolerant extremist organizations.

What would you do? Allow everyone to donate to political causes EXCEPT the people that you don't like?
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Re: Ohio Sec'y of State's ties to fascist racists
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 11, 2006 08:34AM
MacMagus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What would you do? Allow everyone to donate to political causes EXCEPT the people that you don't like?

So you like the "Council for National Policy?" Apparently Blackwell does, at least enough to speak before them. Unfortunately he forgot their cardinal rules of secrecy and it will be interesting to see if he's tossed out. As house servant to the massah he may have outlived his usefulness if this story gets sufficient press. Given the state of the "free press" in the US he's probably safe.

The point of the post is not that he accepts money from them, but that we dance with those that brung us, and his obstruction of fair elections in Ohio suits their cause well.






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Re: Ohio Sec'y of State's ties to fascist racists
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: March 11, 2006 12:35PM
>> What would you do? Allow everyone to donate to political
>> causes EXCEPT the people that you don't like?
>
> So you like the "Council for National Policy?"

Nice evasion.

You've demonstrated quite the streak of hypocrisy lately.

To quote a frequent poster: Why do you hate America?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2006 12:35PM by MacMagus.
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Re: Ohio Sec'y of State's ties to fascist racists
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 11, 2006 12:52PM
MacMagus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nice evasion.

You started from the premise that ALL politicians are taking money from evil organizations or individuals. I believe that there are SOME honest politicians but if you can show me that Dennis Kucinich or Russ Feingold are on the take, I'll accept your premise.

> You've demonstrated quite the streak of hypocrisy
> lately.

You asked a ridiculously loaded facetious question, so I answered in kind.

> To quote a frequent poster: Why do you hate
> America?

I don't hate America - I hate what those who control it do in the name of the ideals for which I was taught it stood.
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Re: Ohio Sec'y of State's ties to fascist racists
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: March 11, 2006 01:21PM
> I believe that there are SOME honest politicians but if you
> can show me that Dennis Kucinich or Russ Feingold are on the
> take, I'll accept your premise.

You've ignored the question again.

I never said that they were "on the take." That's YOUR proposition.

Hate groups donate to many political campaigns and organizations.

There's a difference between accepting money from someone and being "on the take" which implies undue influence by donors.

I'll ask the question again in baby talk so maybe you can understand:

Does yudle baby think that bad white men shouldn't be allowed to give money to widdle politicians?
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Re: Ohio Sec'y of State's ties to fascist racists
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 11, 2006 09:56PM
It's one thing to take money from them, and another to address their coven meetings and show deference and respect to them. Politicians must be seen to be above the suspicion, so taking money from "bad guys" is not something that instills confidence in the electorate that the officeholder is serving the public's interest instead of special interests.

I remain a fan of publicly funded elections, so that candidates don't need to make promises to those able to make contributions. It seems the shortest route to inlfuence-free government.

Does that answer your question? I am trying.
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Re: Ohio Sec'y of State's ties to fascist racists
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: March 11, 2006 10:09PM
> Does that answer your question?

Um. No.


> I am trying.

Okay, I can accept that.


> I remain a fan of publicly funded elections...

I have the feeling that's the closest you're going to get to what should have been a "yes" or "no" answer.
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Re: Ohio Sec'y of State's ties to fascist racists
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 11, 2006 10:14PM
OK - try this. No, I don't think honest politicians should accept money from crooked donors. It causes the public to mistrust their decisions whether they were influenced by the filthy lucre or not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2006 11:33PM by Refurbvirgin.
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Re: Ohio Sec'y of State's ties to fascist racists
Posted by: MacMagus
Date: March 11, 2006 10:42PM
'Still not answering the question.

...and you assume that the politicians necessarily know who is giving them money.

Here's what I'm thinking of...

Your (hypothetical) Republican senate campaign gets a $5,000 dollar check from the nonprofit American Eagle Forum, incorporated with the goal of supporting God, family, justice and the U.S. of A. and a regular donor to legitimate conservative causes. You don't have any easy way to know that they're really radicals without doing a background check on them which you see no reason to do just because they gave you money.

Maybe you find out a little too late what they stand for -- after you spent the money and had dinner with their chairman who was charming and didn't seem at all like a white supremacist until you saw him on tv a few weeks later where he mentioned that as your friend he expected your help to keep women out of higher education, castrate homosexuals, send abortionists to the electric chair, build a wall to keep out the Mexicans, send "them coloreds" back to Africa and kill all the Jews in Hollywood.

I'm not talking about Blackwell. I'm talking about almost any politician. They can't do background checks on all of their donors.

Perhaps your idea is the right approach: Fund all campaigns equally from the public trough.

In the meantime, the system in place should apply equally, should it not? I mean, if the unions, the National Organization for Women and the NAACP can raise money for a political campaign, why not the Klan?
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Re: Ohio Sec'y of State's ties to fascist racists
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 12, 2006 06:18AM
As long as money is necessary to be elected to office those with more of it will have undue influence on politicians. Promises will be made or implied and must be kept to ensure campaign chests are refilled for reelection. Establish a fixed number of signatures of registered voters required to be placed on the ballot, and have a place in public debates and forums. Instant runoff voting or proportional representation are two reforms I'd also like to see. Winner-take-all elections have brought us to dictatorship on the basis of a simple majority of 1%. Power corrupts and Bush is the most powerful President in our history since Lincoln. The difference is Bush has nuclear weapons in his control and is waging a war of world conquest, not simply to preserve the union.

Still attempting to answer your question: I see no reason why unions, or other special interest groups should have disproportional influence over representatives, any more than other groups capable of raising funds. One man’s campaign contributions are anothers bribes. I also believe that representative government is obsolete, and that through properly watchdogged, open source and paper-trailed e-voting machines we can fulfill the dream of Jefferson, who said he knew of no more suitable repository for the power of a free nation than with the people, and if we deem the people too ignorant to make the decisions the solution lies not in taking the power from them, but in educating them. Surrendering decisions that affect us all to the whims of one person is a distinctly undemocratic concept.
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Re: Ohio Sec'y of State's ties to fascist racists
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: March 12, 2006 06:55PM
Ken has actually been pretty amazingly consistent, in the face of all the waffling that the Fl election commission did. He has consistently applied Ohio law to questions and issues.

Now the fact that the Governor of Ohio (Bobbie Taft) is an effing kleptocratic moron tends to tar Blackwell as well, but he's doing a decent job of staying away from old Tar Baby Taft.

It's just amusing to me to see your posting about 'Ken Blackwell has ties to fascist racists'. Because ken is the guy on the right in this photo.


so when are you gonna start using the "Uncle T" phrase ? Huh ?
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Re: Ohio Sec'y of State's ties to fascist racists
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 12, 2006 08:50PM
I already posted his pic, so I thought "Uncle T" was implied. He misallocated voting machines to black districts so that people stood in the rain for eight or more hours to vote (up to 12 by one account, as I recall). He colluded with the GOP to suppress the vote in many, many ways. A sec'y of state, responsible for ensuring fair elections, should not be involved in partisan politics.
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Re: Ohio Sec'y of State's ties to fascist racists
Posted by: RgrF
Date: March 12, 2006 09:53PM
Refurbvirgin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I already posted his pic, so I thought "Uncle T"
> was implied. He misallocated voting machines to
> black districts so that people stood in the rain
> for eight or more hours to vote (up to 12 by one
> account, as I recall). He colluded with the GOP to
> suppress the vote in many, many ways. A sec'y of
> state, responsible for ensuring fair elections,
> should not be involved in partisan politics.


As far as I know people should have the right to decide who the officials are. If the people of Ohio have no problem with the current officeholder, then those from outside Ohio shouldn't either.

Maybe you'd prefer an appointed official without their own support group, maybe like a Harriet Meyers or Antonin Scalia?

Let the Governor decide, maybe he'll give Cathrine Harris the job after this election cycle, hopefully she'll need it.






"Who's more foolish - the fool or the fool that follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi
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Re: Ohio Sec'y of State's ties to fascist racists
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 12, 2006 10:44PM
RgrF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As far as I know people should have the right to
> decide who the officials are. If the people of
> Ohio have no problem with the current
> officeholder, then those from outside Ohio
> shouldn't either.

I of course agree, except when his actions determine the outcome of a presidential election.

> Maybe you'd prefer an appointed official without
> their own support group, maybe like a Harriet
> Meyers or Antonin Scalia?

I'd prefer an honest broker whose only interest was in assuring a fair election. Blackwell was also Bush's campaign chair in Ohio.

> Let the Governor decide, maybe he'll give Cathrine
> Harris the job after this election cycle,
> hopefully she'll need it.

Again, we agree, at least that she'll need a job. And no, I never advocated appointment of election officials, so keep your criticisms to things I've actually written, please.
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Re: Ohio Sec'y of State's ties to fascist racists
Posted by: RgrF
Date: March 13, 2006 01:59AM
If you don't want a response about implying something, don't imply anything yourself.

You implied there was a better way to put election officials in their positions, what would that be?



"Who's more foolish - the fool or the fool that follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi
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Re: Ohio Sec'y of State's ties to fascist racists
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 13, 2006 02:26AM
RgrF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you don't want a response about implying
> something, don't imply anything yourself.

> You implied there was a better way to put election
> officials in their positions, what would that be?

I've stated before that I believe the only solution to monied special interests controlling our government is public financing of elections. Other than that I have no idea what you're talking about.

Ken Blackwell is not an impartial conductor for Ohio's elections, and massive campaign contributions from GOP partisans keep him in office. He has unfairly rigged Ohio's elections, including the 2004 presidential election, when previously accurate exit polls conflicted widely with the vote counts generated by electronic voting machines made and programmed by GOP partisans. Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman have exposed many facets of the stolen Ohio elections and if you want to know more here is a good starting point:
[www.freepress.org]





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2006 02:29AM by Refurbvirgin.
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Re: Ohio Sec'y of State's ties to fascist racists
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: March 14, 2006 11:35AM
Refurb, yer posting bullpaddies again:
"He misallocated voting machines to black districts so that people stood in the rain for eight or more hours to vote (up to 12 by one account, as I recall). "

Blackwell has nothing to do with 'allocation of voting machines'. That was a local screwup by the highly Democratic Party run Cuyahoga County Board of Elections. They under-estimated voting turnout all over the north east ohio area- I stood in line in Lake County for 2 hours myself for that election. Oh, and the TV news crews and self-proclaimed 'election activists' massed a few effect up polling places and actually blocked people's access the the polls at times, based on my memory of TV coverage.

Sorry, no conspiracy here, boyo. Go back to your National Enquirer.

Note also that the 'Black' communities you mentioned here include East Cleveland and Cleveland proper, which are run by the Democratic party hacks whose main claim to fame appears to be their ability to lie, cheat, and steal damn near anything they want from 'their' community.

Why is it that these sort of neighborhoods breed kleptocracies more often than more affluent neighborhoods ? if I were you, I'd be posting that Democrats always steal stuff. Since I'm not, I'll simply comment that politicians from poor neighborhoods steal because that's how they 'get theirs', and in many cases is their main income.
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Re: Ohio Sec'y of State's ties to fascist racists
Posted by: Refurbvirgin
Date: March 14, 2006 04:03PM
Thanks for correcting me cbelt3.

The Democratic election workers that misallocated machines should be barred from future participation in the supervision of voting.

Those election workers were hired by Blackwell, however, and didn't open polling places on time, didn't equitably distribute machines and workers, directed voters to the incorrect lines, causing the elimination of their votes, improperly required identification, denied voters provisional ballots, shut observers out because of "homeland security," and then didn't randomly select precincts for the recount. If they didn't perform their jobs correctly he should have fired them. As you correctly point out, Democrats as well as Republicans can be corrupted.
[www.ilcaonline.org]

As Sec'y of State it was Blackwell's job to ensure fair elections, and obviously that didn't happen, so he should be canned, too.

"Walter Mebane, a Cornell political scientist who contributed to the report, found that precincts that experienced long lines also saw a reduction in expected voter turnout, as some voters looked at the long lines and decided not to vote. Mebane calculated that the scarcity of machines caused "roughly a 2 to 3 percent reduction" in turnout... According to the DNC report, the most pernicious problem Ohioans faced on Election Day was long lines at the polls. Nearly a quarter of the voters in the state waited at least 20 minutes to vote, and 8 percent waited in line for more than an hour. The numbers varied greatly by race. African-Americans waited an average of 52 minutes to vote; the average for white voters was less than 20 minutes."
[www.salon.com]

The bottom line is Bush stole the election.
[www.freepress.org]

When exit polls didn't match the vote count in ex-Soviet Georgia, we demanded a revote. What's good for the goose....
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