MacMagus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So you continue to lie.
>
> Fine.

You stated she was confronting two different dozers. I disproved that using your own link.

You also said "There's a steel frame and a window in the back of the cabin and you're looking at the stack silhouetted against the frame of the window." I disproved that.

You said there was a rebar cage around one machine's cab, but not the other. I disproved that.

I won't continue - you get my point.

Be careful when you complain about others lack of truth.

> You stated she was confronting two different dozers.

Dude, the whole dispute is documented. Why be so bold in your lies when your own words condemn you?

I said that your picture did not portray the 'dozer that hit her. This is a quote from me:
"The better picture to judge from is the one right after the accident that portrays the actual vehicle."

You then insisted that there was only one cat:
"Nowhere in any of the literature, including the link you posted from Hatretz, is it suggested there were two armored bulldozers there that day"

To which I replied...
"I never said anything about armored bulldozers, but now that you mention it, there were at least TWO bulldozers there that day... "

So when you say that I said that she was confronting two bulldozers, you lied. Your picture shows her near Bulldozer "A" and my picture shows two people huddled over her coat in front of Bulldozer "B."

Two different bulldozers.

That's all that I said.

As far as "confrontation" goes, she "confronted" at least one of them. That much, we can agree upon?


> You said there was a rebar cage around one machine's cab,
> but not the other. I disproved that.

Not only DIDN'T you disprove anything that I have said, but every time you proffer more tainted "evidence" and lies, you cast more doubt on your version of the events.

Tell you what, Maggie - you don't call me "dude" and I won't call you "punk."

You're so whacked out you can't even tell the difference between a truck and a bulldozer. Write again when your salvia wears off.

I never said she wasn't murdered, just that I haven't seen enough credible info to make an informed judgment. But you're so obsessed with the idea that she was murdered that you can't let it go at that.

So you summon up all of your hate and obsession and let 'er rip. And in your vehemence, you get a few details wrong. Trivial stuff.

Not even important facts. Nothing that changes it from murder to accident or suicide. Just which truck hit her. How many trucks were on-site.

You feel it necessary to insist that the driver looked her in the eye when he ran her over. With no evidence to that effect. You like the drama.

You're making all of this cr@p up, dredging up bogus stories from the most rabidly partisan web sites, bullshitting, name-calling, using diversionary tactics, pulling out all the stops just to avoid admitting that you got some minor details wrong.

But in defense of those trivial bits of info that you have wrong, you've totally destroyed what little credibility you had left and you lost your last defender on this forum just to satisfy your childish desire to always be right.

You should go to a quiet corner and think about what you've done today.

MacMagus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>... Just which
> truck hit her. How many trucks were on-site.

To quote "the great obfuscator, Ronald Raygun, "there you go again." That salvia must be some killer @#$%& you're smoking to make bulldozers look like trucks. I've actually run cats, building roads, clearing land and logging and I can stop one instantly just by lowering the blade, even on steep firetrail. There was no excuse for this action. You say you've run cats, but I think at most you may have sat in one, otherwise you wouldn't confuse the operator's head for the exhaust stack, though in your present condition the difference between your mouth and a tube pumping hot gas may be miniscule.

You began the personal attacks in this thread, so to complain that I've somehow squandered your goodwill is ludicrous. I sincerely hope you detox soon.

WOW!!!!

---

I hope Rachel Corrie was conscious long enough to realize that she had been terribly injured, that she was scared to death, that she was conscious she was dying. I hope she was in agonizing pain.

I would have loved to see her squished with a bulldozer.

If all the screaming Jew-Haters had been bull-dozed in 1939, there might have been no WWII or death camps.

Refurb gave a taste of what he thinks with his opinions on Jews earlier in the thread. If you get him worked up enough, or he posts while the Ambien kicks in, you might get him to post what he really wants to say.

This woman decided to aid people who made publicly stated declarations of intent to kill Jews. Children, women, all of them. In fact, it's their mission in life.

If there is a hell that @#$%& Rachel Corrie is there.

Refurb is just a common cracker fascist hiding under the leftist umbrella.

satanic philosophies

You know I was starting to like Loki after he tore Fusty a new one, but this is really wearing thin.

---

buggerd Wrote:
> I hope Rachel Corrie was conscious long enough to
> realize that she had been terribly injured, that
> she was scared to death, that she was conscious
> she was dying. I hope she was in agonizing pain.

She was. I hope you're happy.

> I would have loved to see her squished with a
> bulldozer.

We are obviously of two different species, as I live to alleviate suffering, not to cause or enjoy it.

"John Donne caught it years ago and placed it in graphic terms: "No man is an island entire of itself. Every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main." And he goes on toward the end to say, "Any man's death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind; therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
- Martin Luther King, Jr.

> If all the screaming Jew-Haters had been
> bull-dozed in 1939, there might have been no WWII
> or death camps.

Rachel loved all humanity, including Jews. Her anger was directed at Israeli soldiers who were shooting children and bulldozing houses of peaceful people who had not taken up arms against their illegal occupiers. We went to war against Iraq ostensibly because it had not obeyed UN sanctions, but we have supported Israel by vetoing UN resolutions against them for 35 years. Why the double standard?

> Refurb gave a taste of what he thinks with his
> opinions on Jews earlier in the thread. If you get
> him worked up enough, or he posts while the Ambien
> kicks in, you might get him to post what he really
> wants to say.

I have no beef with Jews, and have served them well as an employee in the past. My boss, Milton Bloch, would give me a good reference were he still alive. He and his wife Leona had me to dinner at their home and he tried to hire me back after I took a better job in California.

I don't remember much of his language, but there was one phrase that sticks in my mind. It was something like "Lashona tavo tickvo savo." Does that remotely resemble anything in Hebrew or Yiddish? I don't remember what it meant, either. Any help?

> This woman decided to aid people who made publicly
> stated declarations of intent to kill Jews.
> Children, women, all of them. In fact, it's their
> mission in life.

If she did anything illegal then she should have been tried in a court of law, not crushed by a bulldozer.

> If there is a hell that @#$%& Rachel Corrie is
> there.

She saw horrible things, like children shot by Israeli snipers. That certainly colored her reactions.

> Refurb is just a common cracker fascist hiding
> under the leftist umbrella.

"Cracker" is a racist epithet. Common I am, and rural now, but not from the Southeast. Fascists believe in corporate control of government, and I certainly don't advocate that. It is corporate control of government that has created a permanent warfare state. As far as hiding goes, I'm more visible than most. I've taken on crooked cops over racist & homophobic remarks they've made and helped drive them from office, so I don't think I fit your description at all, but if it makes you feel good about yourself to slander me enjoy yourself. Don't let the truth get in the way of your fun.

> Don't let the truth get in the way of your fun.

Your credo.

MacMagus:

You're a dude.

You haven't addressed the issue of Palestinian's continuous exhortations to kill all Jews.

[www.pmw.org.il]

Here's a charming little broadcast:

"In the name of Allah, we will destroy you, blow you up, take revenge against you, [and] purify the land of you, pigs that have defiled our country... This operation is revenge against the sons of monkeys and pigs."


This lovely girl was only innocently talking about how she loved all people, even Jews, in a war zone:

She saw horrible things, like children shot by Israeli snipers. That certainly colored her reactions.



she ignored horrible things, like palestinians purposely putting screwqs, nuts, bolts and ball bearings inot their bombs to further the maiming and death of INNOCENT 13 year olds at a birthday party that they ruthlessly and cowardly bombed. She supported this behavior and so do you.

---

Actually she was holding a kid's drawing of an American flag.

"Rachel's words from Gaza are a bridge between these two worlds — and now that bridge is being severed. After the Hamas victory, the need for understanding is surely greater than ever, and I refuse to believe that most Americans want to live in isolation. One night in London, an Israeli couple, members of the right-wing Likud party on holiday in Britain, came up after the show, impressed. "The play wasn't against Israel; it was against violence,"they told Cindy Corrie, Rachel's mother.

"I was particularly touched by a young Jewish New Yorker from an Orthodox family who said he had been nervous about coming to see "My Name Is Rachel Corrie" because he had been told that both she and the play were viciously anti-Israel. But he had been powerfully moved by Rachel's words and realized that he had, to his alarm, been dangerously misled."
[www.commondreams.org]

I don't support violence of any kind, G'man, whether it's suicide bombers or missiles and bombs from the Israeli air force. Three times as many Palestinians as Israelis are killed in this ongoing slaughter, so keep your perspective. People on both sides are doing horrible things. The Israelis are just better armed by us, and hence are more efficient at it.

If we'd spent three hundred billion$ resettling the Palestinians instead of on this illegal war on Iraq we might have peace there by now. Unfortunately that wouldn't have gotten us any oil or bases in the region, or advanced the PNAC's roadmap to world domination, so we had other priorities than justice and peace.

Refurbvirgin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't support violence of any kind, G'man,
> whether it's suicide bombers or missiles and bombs
> from the Israeli air force. Three times as many
> Palestinians as Israelis are killed in this
> ongoing slaughter, so keep your perspective.
> People on both sides are doing horrible things.
> The Israelis are just better armed by us, and
> hence are more efficient at it.
>
> If we'd spent three hundred billion$ resettling
> the Palestinians instead of on this illegal war on
> Iraq we might have peace there by now.
> Unfortunately that wouldn't have gotten us any oil
> or bases in the region, or advanced the PNAC's
> roadmap to world domination, so we had other
> priorities than justice and peace.

One more time asshat, the civilians killed by the israelis are not the targets. They get hurt because the palestinian terrorists hide among them. The israelis show up with uniforms and marked vehicles. You can get out of the way if you want to. Those israeli13 yo's were not standing in front of a palestinian armored bulldozer tryng to do it's job, they were having a birthday party. You cannot equivicate the two. If you do, you do it to rationalize the slaughter of innocent jews.

---

Children have been killed by both sides, G'man. If we drop a bomb or fire a missile into a house we intend to kill everyone in it, just as we do if we strap a bomb to ourselves and detonate it in a market or on a bus. Both sides have innocent blood on their hands. The Israelis just have three times more. That pic of Rachel was taken after she learned of an eight year old child killed by an Israeli sniper, as I recall. Were I less of a humanitarian and more pragmatic, like Henry Kissinger, I'd just shrug this off and say 'I hope you kill each other." Rachel cared enough about humanity to want to stand between you. I do not. Call me all the names you want. Come and kill me, as you've often threatened, if that will wipe the slate clean for you. Just lay off Rachel. She was a better person than either of us will ever be.
[www.google.com]

Refurbvirgin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Children have been killed by both sides, G'man. If
> we drop a bomb or fire a missile into a house we
> intend to kill everyone in it, just as we do if we
> strap a bomb to ourselves and detonate it in a
> market or on a bus. Both sides have innocent blood
> on their hands. The Israelis just have three times
> more. That pic of Rachel was taken after she
> learned of an eight year old child killed by an
> Israeli sniper, as I recall. Were I less of a
> humanitarian and more pragmatic, like Henry
> Kissinger, I'd just shrug this off and say 'I hope
> you kill each other." Rachel cared enough about
> humanity to want to stand between you. I do not.
> Call me all the names you want. Come and kill me,
> as you've often threatened, if that will wipe the
> slate clean for you. Just lay off Rachel. She was
> a better person than either of us will ever be.
>


Seriously, he's threatened to kill you?

Damn, dude! Better find an elk to hind behind.

> I don't support violence of any kind

I'll remind you of that the next time that you threaten to kill the president again.

> Children have been killed by both sides

Yet oddly enough, most of them never thought to kill themselves by climbing onto a pile of rubble being flattened by a bulldozer.

Instead, they tried to live their lives. What a waste. How stupid of them.

How sad.

If only they were smart enough to dive under a moving bulldozer, then perhaps Loki would think of them as human beings.

Refurbvirgin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Children have been killed by both sides, G'man. If
> we drop a bomb or fire a missile into a house we
> intend to kill everyone in it, just as we do if we
> strap a bomb to ourselves and detonate it in a
> market or on a bus. Both sides have innocent blood
> on their hands. The Israelis just have three times
> more. That pic of Rachel was taken after she
> learned of an eight year old child killed by an
> Israeli sniper, as I recall. Were I less of a
> humanitarian and more pragmatic, like Henry
> Kissinger, I'd just shrug this off and say 'I hope
> you kill each other." Rachel cared enough about
> humanity to want to stand between you. I do not.
> Call me all the names you want. Come and kill me,
> as you've often threatened, if that will wipe the
> slate clean for you. Just lay off Rachel. She was
> a better person than either of us will ever be.
>
ONE MORE TIME ASSHAT, SUICIDE BOMBERS TARGER INNOCENT CIVILIANS THEREBY NECESSITATING RETALIATION BY THAT COUNTRIES ARMED FORCES. THE COWARDS THEN HIDE AMONGST INNOCENT WOMEN AND CHILDREN CAUSING HARM TO THEIR OWN PEOPLE WHEN RETALIATORY STRIKES ARE CARRIED OUT.

By being cowards, the palestinians kill israeli children on purpose and then put their own children in the sights of the army that must retaliate for their attack.


Which part of that do you not understand?

---

MacMagus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll remind you of that the next time that you
> threaten to kill the president again.

OK, Bozo - quote me or shut up. That's a serious charge which is absolutely baseless, and you know it. Or maybe you don't since you keep confusing trucks and bulldozers. Please get back on your meds before you harm yourself or others.

G'man threatened to kill me several times at Appleswitcher. The most memorable threat was to cut my head off and stuff me in an oven, as I recall. It's interesting to ponder whether New Jersey is the way it is because of people like him, or if he's the way he is because he lives in New Jersey. Like the "chicken or egg" question scientists may never know.

Children are killed on both sides, G'man, but the Israelis are clearly better at it:
[www.rememberthesechildren.org]

Furiously Stylish Wrote:
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> Damn, dude! Better find an elk to hind behind.

I've only been able to get behind an elk intentionally once in the wild, and that was an experience counted in heartbeats, as one of the herd spotted me and they all immediately fled. They're really skittish when they know they're on the menu. On the other hand at the game farm in Sequim I've had a large cow stick her head in my car window and give me a facewash with the longest blue tongue I've ever seen. One time at the hot springs I was following a creek off-trail when I came to a little pool with waterfall and stood there, admiring the scene, until I looked across the creek and saw the back of a huge bull, his velvet-scrubbed antlers red with blood, with his head down, feeding in the brush no more than 30' away. Because of the noise of the waterfall he hadn't heard me approach. I looked around for a tree to climb, as it was rutting season and 700-1000# of angry elk is not fun to be around. Finding no low limbs, I got as low as I could and snuck away. Sitting in the hot springs sounded like a lot more fun.

---

Unpaid Social Liaison

Thank you, mick. It's up to your usual standard of insightful and appropriate comments.

I'm cuckoo for satanic philosophies!

If you want "satanic philosophies" you need look no further than right-wing "Christinsanity," e.g. Pat ("Nuke-the-State-Dep't") Robertson.

You trash islamic law in another post. Which is it loki-nut?

---

I'm an equal-opportunity heretic. If the actions of someone don't jive with their professed faith I feel free to call them on it. I also consider myself an eclectic ("Examine all things and keep that which is good") and look for ways to build bridges, not walls. I admire the Sikhs, who teach that men and women are equal, and that the Hindu caste system is wrong. That doesn't mean I'm going to grow my hair out and wear a turban.

> I'm an equal-opportunity heretic.

Apparently so. You've abused your professed faith quite a bit.


> "Examine all things and keep that which is good"

It's a common misquote.

bruceko Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Her problem was she was brainwashed by going to
> Evergreen State College. I know several people
> that went there and came out so screwed up they
> couldn't make a clear decision if the thier life
> depended it. As was her case.

But could they spell?

NPR touted Evergreen as a "college that changes lives." I guess they got that right. Rachel had more guts than I'll ever have. Unfortunately they were squished out of her while trying to protect the home of an innocent man.
[www.npr.org]

I'd also like to apologize to MacMagus for arguing about the number of bulldozers. My latest search for info on this murder revealed that there were indeed two bulldozers there that day, and that she was confronting both of them. That fact does not excuse the operator of the machine from running over her. If he can't see from his cab (which the pics show he had a clear enough view to know she was in front of him then he shouldn't be pushing with his blade, knowing full well that he might endanger another's life by doing so. The other cat pushed on of the demonstrators up against razor wire, so they were clearly acting without regard for human life, but that has been a characteristic of the illegal Israeli occupation for most of its duration. Had we spent the hundreds of billions we've spent on this illegal, unnecessary war resettling the Palestinian refugees we might have brought peace to the mideast instead of ignited regional war.