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What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: NeverMind
Date: February 20, 2009 10:33PM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: RgrF
Date: February 21, 2009 01:53AM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: samintx
Date: February 21, 2009 07:38AM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: swampy
Date: February 21, 2009 08:28AM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: NeverMind
Date: February 21, 2009 08:33AM
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Quote
samintx
Where has your radio and TV been all these years? I have heard complete sentences out of all our presidents. This one, however, has such a boring delivery I must confess I fall asleep.
Bush didn't always speak poorly, but he sometimes made a gigantic ass of himself, it was the first time I've ever seen that so many times in a president.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: NeverMind
Date: February 21, 2009 08:35AM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dakota
Date: February 21, 2009 09:30AM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: lafinfil
Date: February 21, 2009 09:40AM
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I don't take it for stammering, but he does pause a bit. I always thought if was from his teaching
days and I should be taking notes.
I do appreciate that he at least thinks about what he is saying when speaking extemporaneously,
rather than babbling. Also nice not to have to wait a couple days to have the press secretary come out
and explain to uswhat he "really" meant to say.
The loss of Bush is killing late night TV (Letterman has gone back to doing Clinton jokes)
days and I should be taking notes.
I do appreciate that he at least thinks about what he is saying when speaking extemporaneously,
rather than babbling. Also nice not to have to wait a couple days to have the press secretary come out
and explain to uswhat he "really" meant to say.
The loss of Bush is killing late night TV (Letterman has gone back to doing Clinton jokes)
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Seacrest
Date: February 21, 2009 10:37AM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: NeverMind
Date: February 21, 2009 10:42AM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Black
Date: February 21, 2009 10:51AM
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Quote
lafinfil
I don't take it for stammering, but he does pause a bit. I always thought if was from his teaching
days and I should be taking notes.
I do appreciate that he at least thinks about what he is saying when speaking extemporaneously,
rather than babbling. Also nice not to have to wait a couple days to have the press secretary come out
and explain to uswhat he "really" meant to say.
The loss of Bush is killing late night TV (Letterman has gone back to doing Clinton jokes)
I think the pauses/stammers/whatever are an affected device aimed at seeming more fallable/accessible/approachable/likeable. Probably learned at an early age . . . It's pretty clear that he's got a keen ability to plan out his words very exactly before speaking.
I think the crux of the 'refreshing' difference is that Obama makes an effort to be understood, tacitly giving validation to the idea that people have a right, or at least a valid expectation, to understand what the president is thinking and why he makes the decisions that he does.
Bush almost always became visibly angry when asked to explain anything.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2009 10:54AM by Black.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: NeverMind
Date: February 21, 2009 10:58AM
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Quote
Black
Bush almost always became visibly angry when asked to explain anything.
During the last few years Bush spoke more in a tone that he was trying to be liked. He was trying to win approval on his smile. He was avoiding the issues. When that didn't work the pressure came on to answer questions, and I agree, he started to get upset that he had to explain anything.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2009 11:03AM by NeverMind.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Black
Date: February 21, 2009 11:03AM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: February 21, 2009 02:54PM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: February 21, 2009 03:10PM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dakota
Date: February 21, 2009 04:38PM
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Bush is Bush, Obama is Obama. Everyone has a different speaking style. Can you change the way you talk? Bush at times was very quick on his feet but at other times would stumble. Obama is at his best when he reads from a teleprompter. Several times during the campaign there were occasions when his speeches looked like a stand up. Really liked that. Reminded me of Jerry Seinfeld. The one I remember best was when he chastised Hilary for her support of guns during the PA primary, calling her Annie Oakely.
Wait... I found it.
[www.youtube.com]
0:50 is the best part. He would be a great stand up had he lost the election.
Wait... I found it.
[www.youtube.com]
0:50 is the best part. He would be a great stand up had he lost the election.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: February 21, 2009 04:58PM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: zeppo2
Date: February 21, 2009 05:39PM
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No politics here--just an observation on rhetorical styles. I think calling Bush's speaking method a "style" runs the risk of validating it as acceptable. Politics aside, for most of his speeches he was damn near incoherent. If you Tivo'd the speeches and played them back, the words just didn't fit together in a sensible way. When he was really motivated and seemed to have practiced an important speech he could be an effective communicator, but too often he seemed lackadaisical or at least unwilling to work on a coherent delivery. He often kept the ideas for a given speech to a very narrow topic, though, so the listener usually got the gist of the speech even if the details were lost is a syntactic haze. On the other hand, I think I'll get tired of Obama's pauses pretty quickly.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: kap
Date: February 21, 2009 10:15PM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 22, 2009 10:12AM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: zeppo2
Date: February 22, 2009 02:13PM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: February 22, 2009 02:29PM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 22, 2009 03:59PM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Gutenberg
Date: February 23, 2009 07:15AM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: NeverMind
Date: February 23, 2009 07:35AM
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Quote
Dakota
[www.youtube.com]
0:50 is the best part. He would be a great stand up had he lost the election.
Are you serious?
You are comparing that video to this?:
[www.youtube.com]
"is our children learning"
"fool me once....."
<cringe>
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2009 07:35AM by NeverMind.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dakota
Date: February 23, 2009 11:01AM
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Quote
Gutenberg
I worried more about the stumbling and clumsy image he presented to the rest of the world. I don't cringe when Obama speaks.
Ah, that why-don't they-love-us- anymore syndrome.
Well, I sure haven't seen an outburst of love and sympathy around the world for the US since November. Dutch troops landed in Afghanistan yet?
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: $tevie
Date: February 23, 2009 12:02PM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: February 23, 2009 12:23PM
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Quote
Gutenberg
I worried more about the stumbling and clumsy image he presented to the rest of the world.
This pic during last summers olympics showed the world just what kind of leader we had. Yeesh, talk about making you cringe! What an embarrassment!
Now someone tell me he wasn't drunk on his ass. And you Repugnant-Cons voted for this clown?!?
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: February 23, 2009 03:22PM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: February 23, 2009 03:37PM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: $tevie
Date: February 23, 2009 05:35PM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: zeppo2
Date: February 23, 2009 06:50PM
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"Well. Being oratorically fluent isn't part of the job description. Kids need to have real role models. Not people they don't even know."
I disagree, particularly when it comes to linguistic role models. The presidential job description sure as hell ought to include the ability to communicate clearly, or at least not so poorly that it becomes a national embarrassment. Too often our children's linguistic role models, the people they know, don't provide something they need to aspire towards.
I disagree, particularly when it comes to linguistic role models. The presidential job description sure as hell ought to include the ability to communicate clearly, or at least not so poorly that it becomes a national embarrassment. Too often our children's linguistic role models, the people they know, don't provide something they need to aspire towards.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 23, 2009 07:34PM
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Quote
zeppo2
"Well. Being oratorically fluent isn't part of the job description. Kids need to have real role models. Not people they don't even know."
I disagree, particularly when it comes to linguistic role models. The presidential job description sure as hell ought to include the ability to communicate clearly, or at least not so poorly that it becomes a national embarrassment. Too often our children's linguistic role models, the people they know, don't provide something they need to aspire towards.
Well it "doesn't" include it. A person should be judged based on the content of their character, not how spectacular they dress, how floridly they speak, or how well they "impress." Actions and deeds show what's in your heart. His lacking oratorical capacity in no way was an impediment to him being a better president than he was. His "character" was his flaw.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: February 23, 2009 09:11PM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: RgrF
Date: February 24, 2009 02:21AM
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Quote
vision63
Quote
zeppo2
"Well. Being oratorically fluent isn't part of the job description. Kids need to have real role models. Not people they don't even know."
I disagree, particularly when it comes to linguistic role models. The presidential job description sure as hell ought to include the ability to communicate clearly, or at least not so poorly that it becomes a national embarrassment. Too often our children's linguistic role models, the people they know, don't provide something they need to aspire towards.
Well it "doesn't" include it. A person should be judged based on the content of their character, not how spectacular they dress, how floridly they speak, or how well they "impress." Actions and deeds show what's in your heart. His lacking oratorical capacity in no way was an impediment to him being a better president than he was. His "character" was his flaw.
I both agree and disagree with this assessment. While people shold be judged on the basis of their character, the POTUS isn't just another person. He heads an incredibly complex government, one that Jimmy Carter proved doesn't lend itself to micromanagement. Since he can't realistically manage the government himself he has to set the tone and lead by example.
Mr. Bush failed on all these fronts. Mr. Obama may as well but a least he comes equipped for the job.
"Who's more foolish - the fool or the fool that follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobi
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: swampy
Date: February 24, 2009 07:23AM
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I seem to remember discussing character here in this forum last summer. Not one of you liberals seemed to care about it then now it becomes important.
I even asked who your heroes were and no one gave me a serious answer.
Flip - Flop.
If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
I even asked who your heroes were and no one gave me a serious answer.
Flip - Flop.
If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Gutenberg
Date: February 24, 2009 07:49AM
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Quote
swampy
I seem to remember discussing character here in this forum last summer. Not one of you liberals seemed to care about it then now it becomes important.
I even asked who your heroes were and no one gave me a serious answer.
Flip - Flop.
Hmm. An underhanded and hostile person asks you to name your heroes, information that you are pretty darned sure the underhanded and hostile person will use to ridicule you and your beliefs. So you don't give the information over. Makes sense to me.
We care deeply about character. We just don't take arguments about birth certificates, washed-up domestic "terrorists" and half-baked religious rancor seriously.
Peace, love and Hussein, Swamp Thing.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: $tevie
Date: February 24, 2009 08:50AM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: February 24, 2009 09:31AM
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Quote
swampy
I seem to remember discussing character here in this forum last summer. Not one of you liberals seemed to care about it then now it becomes important.
I even asked who your heroes were and no one gave me a serious answer.
Flip - Flop.
What does this even have to do with he topic. I think it comes under the topic of more of swampy's @#$%&-slinging.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: swampy
Date: February 24, 2009 09:32AM
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Quote
swampy
I think the American people have a right to know about Ayres and make up their own mind. Put it all out there. All of Obama's questionable associates and creepy "friends" or philosophies. Franklin Marshall Davis, Kahalid Abdulla Tariq al-Mansour, Mike Kruglik (who taught Obama all about Saul Alinsky's tactics), Madeline Talbot, ACORN, Rev Wright, Willaim Ayres, Peter Flanigan, Rezko, Bernadine Dohrn, Abongo "Roy" Obama (brother and militant Muslim), FARC, Ali Abunimah, Franklin Raines, James Johnson, Annenberg Challenge, Woods Foundation, and who knows who or what else. Just put it all out there and let the American people judge for themselves.
Obama's favourite book as a teenager was Malcolm X's autobiography. (Dreams of My Father). Okay, we all know Malcom X's radical Muslim background. We all, to some degree, explored radical philosophies as young adults. I did, but it was a passing phase. In Obama's case, given the list of names/entities above, I'm not so sure that Obama ever outgrew it. I think the MSM has not given us the tools to explore the influences on Obama's life. His friends and associates that molded his character.
I look at that list of names and entities and cringe. There's not one that, based on the research I've done, that I can relate to. Not one with whom I can identify. Not one that I would consider a 'friend'. Not one that I would look to for counsel or advise. Not one that has made any selfless contribution to American Society.
These are Obama's 'heroes'. Radicals, Marxists, Socialists, activists, crooks, consumate politicians, world viewers, bomb throwers. To investigate these connections is hardly "Swift Boating". My heroes tend to be scientists, artists, musicians, entrepreneurs, great athletes, good teachers, firemen and police, doctors and nurses, inventors, Mother Theresa, the Dog Whisperer.
Who are your heroes?
[forums.macresource.com]
You guys couldn't even agree with ONE of my heroes. I guess you don't have any or you are too embarassed to mention them.
If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: February 24, 2009 09:36AM
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Gee, I wonder why no one answered that mess of a post.
"My heroes tend to be scientists, artists, musicians, entrepreneurs, great athletes, good teachers, firemen and police, doctors and nurses, inventors, Mother Theresa, the Dog Whisperer."
OK, I agree with that list, except for the Dog Whisperer.
"My heroes tend to be scientists, artists, musicians, entrepreneurs, great athletes, good teachers, firemen and police, doctors and nurses, inventors, Mother Theresa, the Dog Whisperer."
OK, I agree with that list, except for the Dog Whisperer.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: kanesa
Date: February 24, 2009 09:39AM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: kanesa
Date: February 24, 2009 09:48AM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: swampy
Date: February 24, 2009 10:43AM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: vision63
Date: February 24, 2009 11:36AM
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Quote
RgrF
Quote
vision63
Quote
zeppo2
"Well. Being oratorically fluent isn't part of the job description. Kids need to have real role models. Not people they don't even know."
I disagree, particularly when it comes to linguistic role models. The presidential job description sure as hell ought to include the ability to communicate clearly, or at least not so poorly that it becomes a national embarrassment. Too often our children's linguistic role models, the people they know, don't provide something they need to aspire towards.
Well it "doesn't" include it. A person should be judged based on the content of their character, not how spectacular they dress, how floridly they speak, or how well they "impress." Actions and deeds show what's in your heart. His lacking oratorical capacity in no way was an impediment to him being a better president than he was. His "character" was his flaw.
I both agree and disagree with this assessment. While people shold be judged on the basis of their character, the POTUS isn't just another person. He heads an incredibly complex government, one that Jimmy Carter proved doesn't lend itself to micromanagement. Since he can't realistically manage the government himself he has to set the tone and lead by example.
Mr. Bush failed on all these fronts. Mr. Obama may as well but a least he comes equipped for the job.
Well that's true. But if Bush had at least held to being the compassionate conservative that he initially claimed then his faux paux's would just be humorous asides similar to Ford's clumsiness.
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: swampy
Date: February 24, 2009 12:17PM
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Vision..."I both agree and disagree with this assessment. While people shold be judged on the basis of their character, the POTUS isn't just another person. He heads an incredibly complex government, one that Jimmy Carter proved doesn't lend itself to micromanagement. Since he can't realistically manage the government himself he has to set the tone and lead by example.
Mr. Bush failed on all these fronts. Mr. Obama may as well but a least he comes equipped for the job."
Obama isn't micro managing? And what management experience did he bring to the job? Oh, yeah, he voted Present, he organized community meetings and he ran for office a couple times. He's in way over his head. But I'll give you a couple months to figure that out for yourself.
If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
Mr. Bush failed on all these fronts. Mr. Obama may as well but a least he comes equipped for the job."
Obama isn't micro managing? And what management experience did he bring to the job? Oh, yeah, he voted Present, he organized community meetings and he ran for office a couple times. He's in way over his head. But I'll give you a couple months to figure that out for yourself.
If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: February 24, 2009 12:40PM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: swampy
Date: February 24, 2009 01:20PM
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Sarah Palin has about as much experience as Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Carter or any other contenders who served as a governor. Truman, GHW Bush, Nixon, Johnson were all VPs, Eisenhower was Command of the Allied Forces in Europe. JFK served in both the House and Senate for over 10 years total.
Wonder Boy did what? Oh yeah, he was a community orgaizer and ran a couple campaigns. All his predecessors had _real_ credentials and experience.
If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
Wonder Boy did what? Oh yeah, he was a community orgaizer and ran a couple campaigns. All his predecessors had _real_ credentials and experience.
If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: February 24, 2009 01:31PM
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Re: What a breath of fresh air
Posted by: Silencio
Date: February 24, 2009 02:03PM
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"Sarah Palin has about as much experience as Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Carter or any other contenders who served as a governor."
Please. Those other guys ran much, much bigger states in terms of population and annual budgets. On that count the mayor of Charlotte, NC is probably more qualified to be President than Sarah Palin is.
Please. Those other guys ran much, much bigger states in terms of population and annual budgets. On that count the mayor of Charlotte, NC is probably more qualified to be President than Sarah Palin is.
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