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Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Dakota
Date: August 02, 2010 08:35PM
Where do you think this sign is? Incredible. Instead of warning the smugglers and threatening them with jail, Obama is warning us to stay away. In our own country. Read the last bullet. We effectively have our own Al Anbar province.





After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Pam
Date: August 02, 2010 08:44PM
Huh? You're really stretching this. You could make the same claim for wildlife areas that warn of dangerous animals. That's our land too.
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Grace62
Date: August 02, 2010 08:52PM
I certainly hope they're not serious about closing the border.
Why would we do that?
The last time we had to close our borders was just after 9/11.
Do you even know what closing the border means?
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Dakota
Date: August 02, 2010 09:14PM
One day you are the smartest man on the forum the next you don't know what I mean by closing the border. No, I don' t mean closing the border on people with a valid passport and stamped visa. Am I clear? Let's now debate the sign.



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Grace62
Date: August 02, 2010 09:22PM
Dakota, closing the border means no one goes through. Period.

You are not talking about closing the border, you are talking about increasing border security. Why not use the correct words, assuming you know them?
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Doc
Date: August 02, 2010 09:23PM
Quote
Dakota
Let's now debate the sign.

I don't think the sign wants to debate.
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Grace62
Date: August 02, 2010 09:30PM
President Barack Obama asked Congress on Tuesday (June 22) to approve $600 million in emergency spending for steps to increase security along the border with Mexico, a key issue in the immigration reform debate.

In a letter to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Obama said the money would pay for hiring 1,000 new border patrol agents and 160 new Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents, two unmanned aircraft systems and other support for border security.


That's a lot of dinero. Not to mention 1,200 national guard personnel already deployed to the border.

And yet, crime is down in border cities and has been steadily decreasing over the past 3-5 years. I'm all for people crossing the border legally and safely, but it's foolish to think that a very poor nation and a very rich nation can share a 2,000 mile border, the world's busiest international crossing point, and there will be no illegal crossing from the south. Therefore this is an issue that will always be fuel for the demagogues. 250 million people cross that border a year, I think we're doing OK. I would like to see more measures to prevent unsafe crossings that cost hundreds of people their lives every year, but otherwise, I think we're doing enough.
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Dakota
Date: August 02, 2010 09:31PM
Quote
Grace62
Dakota, closing the border means no one goes through. Period.

You are not talking about closing the border, you are talking about increasing border security. Why not use the correct words, assuming you know them?

You want to pretend you are confused, be my guest. With all that has been in the news the only reason you are acting like this is to avoid the issue. It just shows you are buying time until you can figure out what to say.



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: August 02, 2010 09:42PM
The border will never be closed because the Democratic politicians want the voters and the Republican politicians want the cheap labor. You all should know that by now.
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Grace62
Date: August 02, 2010 09:48PM
Quote
Dakota
It just shows you are buying time until you can figure out what to say.


Too slow Charlie.
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: bfd
Date: August 02, 2010 09:59PM
If you saw the size of the Border Patrol force around here, you'd complain that the country was being invaded by the military. You can't travel some areas around here without every other vehicle being a BPmobile.

This is not to say that throwing money and armed forces at the border will help, all it's done so far is push the coyotes and mules farther east into the desert. Hence, the BLM sign.

Here's another sign we see frequently around here…



Guess we lost our freeways too.
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: michaelb
Date: August 02, 2010 10:03PM
I am not sure how to debate the sign. Can you prove that this sign was put up during the past 2 years? How do I know this isn't a Bush era sign. It seems to me that signs like that are just what we would have to do all along the border, if we were "closing" it. We wouldn't want our border guards shooting innocent Americans picnicking along the border. Closing the border means militarizing it to stop unauthorized access, and I would think we would want to warn folks on both sides about that. Smugglers and illegals aren't going to read signs.
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Dakota
Date: August 02, 2010 11:36PM
When a sovereign country tells its own people to stay away from areas within its borders what we have is an admission that the certain parts of the country is outside the control of central government. In effect, we have "no-go" zones inside the US.



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Grace62
Date: August 02, 2010 11:54PM
All you've done Dakota is point out that there are unsafe areas at our southern border. I think we all knew that.
What's your solution? How many more hundreds of millions should be sent there? How many more people? And what exactly will they do that isn't being done now?

How about we stop sending so many guns to Mexico? We're the official arms dealer of the Mexican drug wars. That would be a start, but the gun dealers in Texas won't be happy about it.
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Grace62
Date: August 03, 2010 12:27AM
Oh and BTW, Arizona needs over 500 National Guard volunteers for border patrol jobs, and so far they have no applications.
Anybody here signing up?
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Kiva
Date: August 03, 2010 12:43AM
jeez, dak..this is a new low of stupidity, even for you.

Start with this; HOW OLD IS THE FREAKING SIGN?

oh, and if you asked a cop wether or not it was a good idea to go into certain parts of say, detroit, at 2am...my guess is he'd pretty much tell you everything in the sign.

jeez.

kiva



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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: mattkime
Date: August 03, 2010 07:21AM
Dakota will frequently see his own shadow and blame liberal ecofreaks for causing it. This is nothing worthy of response.



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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: swampy
Date: August 03, 2010 07:59AM
Interstate 8 is almost a hundred miles north of the Mexican border. The drug cartels and human smugglers have created a corridor from the border to I-8. That they have penetrated so far north into sovereign US territory that it sounds more like an invasion than a simple matter of border crossing.



If you don't stand for something, you'll probably fall for anything.t
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Dakota
Date: August 03, 2010 08:16AM
The last time we were faced with "no-go" zones we had to have a surge to take care of it. Are there any "village elders" down there we can team up with? If I was Obama I would organize a few Awakening Councils.



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Dakota
Date: August 03, 2010 08:17AM
Quote
Grace62
Oh and BTW, Arizona needs over 500 National Guard volunteers for border patrol jobs, and so far they have no applications.
Anybody here signing up?

Volunteers? As in no pay? And you were accusing me of being imprecise with words?



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Grace62
Date: August 03, 2010 08:55AM
Quote
Dakota
Quote
Grace62
Oh and BTW, Arizona needs over 500 National Guard volunteers for border patrol jobs, and so far they have no applications.
Anybody here signing up?

Volunteers? As in no pay? And you were accusing me of being imprecise with words?

Volunteers as in they are not drafted. You know, like the all-volunteer army that we have now? You thought they weren't paid?

When are you signing up?
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: billb
Date: August 03, 2010 09:07AM
Quote
Grace62
I certainly hope they're not serious about closing the border.
Why would we do that?
The last time we had to close our borders was just after 9/11.
Do you even know what closing the border means?


If it was so easy to do then and NO undocumenteds entered the country then, why is it so hard to do now ?
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Dakota
Date: August 03, 2010 10:49AM
Quote
Grace62


When are you signing up?

I have a job. Your question is best asked of those who have used up their 99 weeks of free money and still can't find a job. How about posting this question to that unemployment thread I posed a while back? I am sure those 500 positions will be snapped up in no time.



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: billb
Date: August 03, 2010 11:17AM
Quote
Grace62
Oh and BTW, Arizona needs over 500 National Guard volunteers for border patrol jobs, and so far they have no applications.
Anybody here signing up?

Hafta be a citizen - seems they're having problems with that qualification.
Maybe bring back the 600 from Afghanistan?
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: mattkime
Date: August 03, 2010 11:32AM
Quote
Dakota
I have a job.

yes, saying asinine things on the internet.



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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: decay
Date: August 03, 2010 01:26PM
don't bother the anti-Obama whiners with facts...

[www.newyorker.com]

When the topic is illegal immigration, some of our political leaders reliably produce more heat than light. On April 28th, in a letter to President Obama, seventeen members of Congress, most of them from the Southwest, demanded immediate action to increase border security, noting that “violence in the vicinity of the U.S.-Mexico border continues to increase at an alarming rate.” Two days earlier, Senator John McCain, of Arizona, in a floor speech defending his state’s newly passed law requiring local officers to investigate individuals’ immigration status, described “an unsecured border between Arizona and Mexico, which has led to violence, the worst I have ever seen.” He went on to cite numbers for illegal immigrants apprehended last year “that stagger.”

In fact those numbers are surprising: they are sharply down, according to the Border Patrol—by more than sixty per cent since 2000, to five hundred and fifty thousand apprehensions last year, the lowest figure in thirty-five years. Illegal immigration, although hard to measure, has clearly been declining. The southern border, far from being “unsecured,” is in better shape than it has been for years—better managed and less porous. It has been the beneficiary of security-budget increases since September 11th, which have helped slow the pace of illegal entries, if not as dramatically as the economic crash did. Violent crime, though rising in Mexico, has fallen this side of the border: in Southwestern border counties it has dropped more than thirty per cent in the past two decades. It’s down in Senator McCain’s Arizona. According to F.B.I. statistics, the four safest big cities in the United States—San Diego, Phoenix, El Paso, and Austin—are all in border states.



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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: hal
Date: August 03, 2010 02:33PM
Quote
swampy
Interstate 8 is almost a hundred miles north of the Mexican border. The drug cartels and human smugglers have created a corridor from the border to I-8. That they have penetrated so far north into sovereign US territory that it sounds more like an invasion than a simple matter of border crossing.

Can't you read a map? There are areas where I-8 is about 1/2 mile from the border. Anyone wanna place a wager over just WHERE on I-8 that sign is?

No doubt, you didn't even look at a map, but rather, some rightwing blogger nutcase instead. Nothing new here...
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Dakota
Date: August 03, 2010 03:12PM
Quote
hal
Anyone wanna place a wager over just WHERE on I-8 that sign is?

I don't know exactly which town but I am willing to bet it is in Al Anbar province.



After you discover you're riding a dead horse, your best strategy is to dismount.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2010 03:13PM by Dakota.
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: billb
Date: August 03, 2010 03:14PM
Is "aren't not serious" an intentional double negative ?

Just playing hypothetical Grandma Nazi here.


I'd add a hint of snark and some off coloured remark if I was an intolerant bigotted arse.
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Gutenberg
Date: August 03, 2010 03:49PM
Oh please. Can we all pause for a moment while billb untangles his knickers?
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Grace62
Date: August 03, 2010 04:01PM
Quote
Dakota
Quote
Grace62


When are you signing up?

I have a job. Your question is best asked of those who have used up their 99 weeks of free money and still can't find a job. How about posting this question to that unemployment thread I posed a while back? I am sure those 500 positions will be snapped up in no time.

Guess what. The people in the National Guard have jobs too. They train on weekends, and then when the country needs them, they volunteer for missions or get deployed. They sacrifice career advancement and time with family, sometimes even their lives, in order to serve their country.
So if you're so concerned about our nation's security at the southern border, what's stopping you from signing up?
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: Grace62
Date: August 03, 2010 04:23PM
Oh. Here's what this is about. Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer's legal defense fund.

Brewer made a video of herself in front of the signs, which are in the desert area between I-8 and the border. In the video she says she is 80 miles from the border. She's using it as a political fundraiser, attempting to say that she asked the feds for help and that "Obama sent signs instead." (a blatant, pathetic lie.)

Poor forest rangers who work in the area and thought they were just doing a good deed to promote safety and awareness...little did they know they'd be the next political pawns.

"Despite Brewer's attack however, local Arizona station KPHO reports that the idea to put up the new border signs didn't originate with the Obama administration even though they were set up by the federal government:

The signs were suggested by rangers who work the area after a rash of violence and shootings related to drug and human smugglers, according to the Bureau of Land Management."
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: billb
Date: August 04, 2010 10:33AM
Quote
Gutenberg
Oh please. Can we all pause for a moment while billb untangles his knickers?

I'll have you know I wear the new-fangled tangle-free no-iron knickers.
That was a LOL post.
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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: decay
Date: August 04, 2010 11:43AM
so... no comments on the fact that numbers have GONE DOWN?

where's that LIBERAL SLANT to the media? we are not hearing about this on the news.



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Re: Proof feds aren't not serious about closing the border
Posted by: kanesa
Date: August 04, 2010 03:37PM
[www.washingtonpost.com]

Deportation of illegal immmigrants increases under Obama administration



In a bid to remake the enforcement of federal immigration laws, the Obama administration is deporting record numbers of illegal immigrants and auditing hundreds of businesses that blithely hire undocumented workers.


The Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency expects to deport about 400,000 people this fiscal year, nearly 10 percent above the Bush administration's 2008 total and 25 percent more than were deported in 2007. The pace of company audits has roughly quadrupled since President George W. Bush's final year in office.
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